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so is this a medical problem or lazyness or naughtiness?

(21 Posts)
amisuchabadmummy Fri 29-May-09 11:04:03

DS been toilet trained for about 6 months. He's generally been fine but had the odd accident, but lately its got worse and worse. he had 5 accidents yesterday at nursery. and on a normal day he has at least two accidents, both poo and wee.

he says all of the following: he's worried about other people playing with his toys if he goes to the toilet, he doesnt know he's going, its an accident, he doesnt like going to the toilet...

he'll be 4 in August and starts school in Sept.

I am at a loss how to solve this, have tried everything.

could it be a medical thing?

OmicronPersei8 Fri 29-May-09 11:17:05

Hi, it's distressing, isn't it? Sometimes it's just a phase, I think all the reasons he gave are valid for a child his age. That doesn't necessairy help if you want him to stop though! Toilets in nursery and school can cause anxiety in children, talk to the staff they may be able to help (and hav probably seen it before).

You may have already tried some of these, but these are the ideas that come to mind:

Will he go to the toliet if you take him? Maybe try taking him on a regular basis, sometimes they don't go as they are engrossed in a game, with a reminder that is less of an issue.

I once worked with a 6 year old child who had accidents every day. In the end what worked was a sticker for every 2 hours he was dry - so the focus was on the positive not the negative. With an almost-4 year old, I'd give them out even more frequently than that. If you talk to the nursery they might help in doing this too.

Also I take my DD to the toilet when I drop her off and when I pick her up as a bit of insurance - she's 3 and is wary of going at nursery.

And you could take him to the doctor to check for an infection - you never know.

I hope that helps.

AMumInScotland Fri 29-May-09 11:17:54

Well, he's giving you quite a range of reasons there, but I think the psychological ones are interesting.

He doesn't like going to the toilet, and he worries about the toys. Does he have accidents at home, or is this something much more common at nursery? If it's just (or mostly) nursery, then I think you have to find ways of making him feel more able to use the toilets there. Maybe you could speak to the staff and get them to keep an eye on him, suggest to him that he might want to go after juice-time, maybe go with him and find out if there's something about the toilets there he doesn't like?

It's not unusual, for boys specially, to still be having accidents at this age, but I think I'd start by looking at those areas to see if it's something bothering him rather than a physical problem.

And I'm sure it's not naughtiness or lazyness.

amisuchabadmummy Fri 29-May-09 11:20:12

thanks. i dont think its that he's worried about going at nursery as he happily goes sometimes and he has accidents at home also.

nursery are brilliant, they've done the stickers, rewards, praise, taking him every hour as i have !

hopefully its just a phase...

amisuchabadmummy Fri 29-May-09 11:22:43

yes he does have accidents at home too.

i really dont think he is worried about going to the loo or dislikes it either at school or home as he happily goes sometimes.

i have a feeling its just that he'd rather be playing or doing whatever he's doing...

he's certainly not bothered about having poo in his pants either... boys!

stealthsquiggle Fri 29-May-09 11:22:55

What do nursery say about it? It sounds like he still needs reminding, which is not unusual after 6 months, IMO - so do they routinely remind them, and (for example) get them all to go before lunch/snack/going out to play/whatever? - and if not, why not? 5 accidents sounds a lot to me if he was reminded/sent at strategic intervals.

It's worth a visit to the GP to double-check, but I think nursery should be taking a more active role in managing this. I think most reception teachers will send the DC to the toilet at strategic intervals so that wouldn't be a big shift for him.

amisuchabadmummy Fri 29-May-09 11:26:33

The nursery say sometimes it happens, but that its unusual for accidents to happen for such a continued period.

They are fantastic about it all, all the children are reminded about going to the toilet at regular intervals, they ask him particularly whenever anyone else asks to go as they are aware of the problem.

he simply says he doesnt want to go and then has an accident.

yesterday he came back from having a wee and had a poo accident 2 minutes later.

stealthsquiggle Fri 29-May-09 11:26:43

sorry - x-post - if he is being taken every hour and still managed to have 5 accidents then I would suspect some sort of infection.

amisuchabadmummy Fri 29-May-09 11:28:42

do you think so stealth? ive heard of urine infections but the accidents are invariable poo.

could he have a bowel infection do you think? would it have lasted this long?

his poo is normal looking (and i'd know, i've seen enough of it recently!!!).

stealthsquiggle Fri 29-May-09 11:33:57

It doesn't seem likely, does it sad?

The wee followed by poo accident sounds like he was in a rush to get back to what he was doing. Can nursery help with emphasising that things will wait / putting the toys aside so no-one can pinch them while he is gone?

I am racking my brains to remember what we did with DS, who was inclined to get absorbed in something and 'forget' to go but (you will be glad to hear) time is a great healer in this as in so many other things, and I can't really remember. DD is much easier in as much as she will go when reminded.

I do remember over-riding the 'I don't need to' with 'well, you need to go and try anyway before you can do X' - I know they do need to learn to judge for themselves and all that, but needs must....

amisuchabadmummy Fri 29-May-09 11:53:22

time... ah yes, im hoping !

i do remind him and say he needs to try if he says he doesnt need to go. a tantrum usually follows !

its just a phase... its just a phase.... (if i say it often enough it may keep me sane!).

thanks for your help though... i know im not alone!

Geocentric Fri 29-May-09 11:58:44

With my DS, I remember a phase after he was fully toilet trained when he got a little overconfident and cocky, and started having accidents. He thought he'd just hold it in that little bit longer, just to finish whatever he was doing...

He got back on track after about a month iirc.

tummytickler Fri 29-May-09 16:42:49

I will be watching this thread - i was going to post exactly the same thing - my dd is 4 in August and starts school in September.
Aboiut a month ago we were commenting on how there had been no accidents for months, and within a week started having loads of accidents every day. we are really worried about school now!
She gets very cross if she is asked if she wats to go and always says no - and usually has an accident 20 minutes later. She is only at home though!
strange - will be checking back later once dcs are in bed!
But, OP you are not alone!

tummytickler Fri 29-May-09 16:42:50

I will be watching this thread - i was going to post exactly the same thing - my dd is 4 in August and starts school in September.
Aboiut a month ago we were commenting on how there had been no accidents for months, and within a week started having loads of accidents every day. we are really worried about school now!
She gets very cross if she is asked if she wats to go and always says no - and usually has an accident 20 minutes later. She is only at home though!
strange - will be checking back later once dcs are in bed!
But, OP you are not alone!

amisuchabadmummy Sun 31-May-09 12:22:14

thanks tummy.

DS had two poo accidents already today, despite the second time being 5ft from the toilet.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

DesperateHousewifeToo Sun 31-May-09 12:28:41

Are you sure he is not constipated? Has he always had a poo on the loo everyday up until this started?

This can cause soiling and can also cause weeing too.

Have a search for 'constipation', 'soiling', 'encopresis'.

If it is this, the soiling is out of their control as their bowels stretch and lose sensation.

Have a look at some threads and see what you think.

amisuchabadmummy Sun 31-May-09 12:42:57

thanks for that desperate... ive had a look at encopresis. i dont think its this, his poos are normal consistency.

he normally poos ok, quite often, maybe 3-5 times a day but he eats a LOT of fruit and veg.

i am really beginning to think he's being lazy/too distracted...

DesperateHousewifeToo Sun 31-May-09 12:53:50

The poo is usually a normal consistency as the looser stuff goes around the compacted poo.

Does he do a massive poo every now and again?

Maybe go to the doc, just to rule it out. Our gp could feel the impaction in my ds' bowel by pressing his tummy.

He had all the same symptoms as your ds.

amisuchabadmummy Sun 31-May-09 14:22:46

really? think i may take him to the doctors.

he poos normally, normal consistency and his accidents are normal consistency too. no leakage, and i wouldnt say he does occasional big poos, just regular nomal ones... but you're right its worth ruling it out.

thanks for all your help...

DesperateHousewifeToo Sun 31-May-09 14:39:13

Hope you find an answer, whether it is physical or psychological.

Perhaps the HV could help if the gp rules out a physical cause?

amisuchabadmummy Sun 31-May-09 16:19:11

thanks for all your help....

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