Accusation about grandpa

[Idratherbeincognito]

I'm a regular mumsnetter but posting anonymously because of the stigma and sensitivity of this problem.

I'm afraid that this is going to be a long post.

It started last Friday. DD (2.9) started to complain that there was a spider in her car seat and was wriggling uncomfortably. Conversation went a bit like this:

Me: are you itchy and uncomfortable?
DD: Yes
Me: Where?
DD: On my bottom
Me: bottom or twinkle? [twinkle is her name for vagina]
DD: twinkle
DD: It's sore, I scratched it
Me: You scratched it? Has anyone else touched it?

(Yes I know leading question, I don't know what made me ask it really)

DD: Yes grandpa
Me: Grandpa, are you sure?
DD: Yes.
Me: Where did this happen?
DD: In the garden
Me: What did you say?
DD: I said ouch

I then decided to test dd. Basically I asked her if anyone else had touched her i.e. grandma, daddy, the ladies at nursery. To which she replied 'no'. I would have been happier if she had replied 'yes' to the others as that would have made the whole grandpa thing a bit less likely iyswim

Dd does occasionally come up with embellishments or little fibs. For instance, she will say that the staff at Day Nursery smack her, and once she told my friend that the graze on her knee was because daddy pushed her, when in fact daddy had tried to catch her when she fell from a climbing frame (and thus grazed her knee).

I don't want to dismiss this is a fib though just in case it is the truth.

I did take her to the doctors on Friday to discuss this. The Dr examined her and she has a bit of thrush but not physical injury or anything down there. The Dr said she will discuss this with an expert colleague in child protection for advice, and has arranged to see me again in a week to discuss further.

Just don't know what to think. What would you think in the circumstances?

[myermay]

Message withdrawn

[Idratherbeincognito]

I was wondering if the conversation was getting muddled because moments before we had been discussing how she doesn't like grandpa because it hurts when he wipes her nose, and that she prefers grandpa to do it.

So perhaps in her mind there is a thought process:

granda - nose wiping - hurts

therefore, twinkle currently hurting (down to thrush it would seem) - it must be grandpa's fault?

[Idratherbeincognito]

My dad.

I don't recollect him doing anything to me as a child but I've always had a very difficult relationship with him

[myermay]

Message withdrawn

[miranda2]

Could be nothing, could be something. Could have been an accident. May well just be that the thrush made her itchy and the rest is embellishment - they do make up very plausible stories at this age, and she doesn't know this is any different from 'Kevin hit me at nursery' etc. On the other hand, one of my friends from school was touched by her grandad for years, though at a much later age. Well done for taking her to the doctors, and really hope you get some advice you are happy with. I would imagine though it will be impossible ever to know conclusively whether there was anything in this or not. Might be worth simply making sure they aren't alone together for your peace of mind?

[miranda2]

Just seen the other postings - only had the op at first. The thought process you describe does sound quite likely to me I must say.

[Nemo1977]

as someone who was abused i would always be inclined to listen to child....however if she does tend to associate one event with another then i dont know. The other thing is could it be possible she has told granpa she is sore and he has looked?

[tigermoth]

I don't know, very difficult as she is so young as well. Perhaps her grandpa touched her there by mistake while he was carrying her or having a rough and tumble game, as they were outside in the gardne? Is she old enought to tell or show you how he touched her? Glad this will be referrd to experts.

[Roobie]

Your dd sounds quite well developed in her speech. Perhaps you can ask her to tell you if anything similar happens in future? Her Grandpa may have accidently (and innocently) touched her during horseplay in the garden and caused the irritation, he may not have touched her at all or, indeed, there could be something more sinister involved. If she has thrush maybe she mentioned that she was itchy to grandpa and he took a quick look?

Of course you don't want to ignore any warning signs but now you are on alert you are well placed to monitor the situation before diving in with any devastating family-wrecking confrontations (not that I am suggesting you were contemplating this!)

[Idratherbeincognito]

nemo,

I'm very sorry that you suffered as a child. Nobody should have to go through this.

Grandpa doesn't see us very often. Grandparents live a 4 hour drive away and come and stay with us 4 or 5 times per year for a week at a time. On the last occasion they were here (10 days ago) we took the opportunity to go and see friends for the weekend leaving dd with grandma and grandpa. I won't be doing that again because there will always be that suspiscion.

I don't know if I can be normal towards him anymore.

DD doesn't seem traumatised or distressed. She mentioned grandpa and grandma matter of factly when we were driving past the garden centre yesterday, i.e."I went there with grandma and grandpa"

If she had been touched inappropriately by him - would there be some tell tale sign in her behaviour immediately afterwards and for a while after? Or would she seem like her normal self?

She did have more accidents (wee and poo) in her pants for a couple of days after they went home. Coincidence? Am I reading too much into it? She is normally reliable with her toilet training. The accidents have died down again now.

[Idratherbeincognito]

Grandpa is very traditional about male and female roles. He wouldn't help dd with the toilet or anything like that - would delegate that to grandma, so I can't imagine him innocently taking a look.

There was a day when they were staying with us when it was quite sunny, so dd was playing in the garden. She did wet her pants (too busy to ask for the toilet) so I took them off and didn't immediately get her a dry pair. So she was playing in the garden for while with a skirt and no pants. She was in the garden like this with just her grandpa for a while.

[Nemo1977]

Id
its soo hard at her age their may not be any signs of trauma as she doesnt totally know its a 'bad' thing iykwim. Personally with my step dad it was never something anyone else would have thought him capable of he was respectable etc...if i were u and u are unsusre then just never leave her alone in his company..not even with grandma as if she is unaware then she could nip to loo etc with him there alone...it does only take seconds unfortunately. I have only told people of my abuse in the past q8mths as after having my ds i realised how i couldnt have a person like that around me and my child [and future children]. It will be easier if they dont live close to enforce supervision of her....I hope things work out and that ur little girls incident was just a misconstrued thing....is it possible to ask granpa about itor even grandma or owuld u not feel comfortable?

[Idratherbeincognito]

I can't ask grandpa or grandma. There would be an explosion of rage....

Yes, it's just going to be a question of not leaving them alone together - ever.

[Idratherbeincognito]

That's a good idea Beetroot. How old was dd when this happened? - I'd love to either borrow the book or get my own copy from Amazon. What is it called?

[lisalisa]

Message withdrawn

[Idratherbeincognito]

Lisalisa,

Thankyou, I so hope you're right...

[lisalisa]

Message withdrawn

[Idratherbeincognito]

Thanks very much Beetroot. I've immediately placed an order.

[Idratherbeincognito]

That's just horrible Beetroot. She's okay now I hope?