What do you do when children seem so afraid of failing that won't try?

[Fillyjonk]

This is ds, he is 5.

He seems to think he should be briliant at stuff right from the start.

So he wants to read. But perfectly, or at least like us. He wants to play the violin. But really really well. There is clearly a big gap between what he imagines himself doing and what he is actually capable of.

I don't think it is that he objects to the hard graft as such. He will do that, for example he has worked hard to, say, learn to knit or learn to write (oddly he doesn't mind not being able to write perfectly), or ride a bike or whatever.

I think the problem is when he sets himself a goal, he really struggles with how far short he is falling from that goal.

I don't know how to help him at all really. He gets so UPSET.

He is home educated so no input from school. However, he does several classes, and there are no problems with them. It is really self-imposed goals that he is struggling with, he is fine at following instructions, being taught, etc (and the specific problem of the violin might resolve itself when he starts lessons).

Thoughts please?

[Fillyjonk]

(brilliant, rather. Feeding baby=synapses not firing properly)

[GooseyLoosey]

Ds is a bit like this with some things. I tell him about what I struggled with as a child and how hard I had to try to do things. He seems to think that if it was OK for mummy to struggle then its OK for him to. I tell him these tales at night when I climb into bed with him and try and make sense of the day.

[Fillyjonk]

Thats a good idea goosey, I do that but I do think I could perhaps do a little more of it. Or maybe get my mum to have a word with him about how hard I found stuff.

I think he just gets overwhelmed by frustration really and wants to give up.

And I feel oddly guilty saying "no, don't give up, keep going". He is always pleased that I get him to continue, but at the time it often feels quite co-ercive.

And tbh, there is no way I'd teach a 5 year old to read unless he wanted to learn anyway (I went through the steiner system and tend to think 7 is a better age, unless they show earlier readiness)

[Minkus]

I posted a similar message a while back and had some helpful answers, take a look.

I talked to my mum about this and she said "but Minkus you were exactly the same" and she is right, I remember getting really stroppy about piano lessons- gave them up after about 3 months because although I started off being entered for a grade 3 exam from a zero knowledge base (so must have had some sort of "ear" for the thing) I just couldn't learn quickly enough for my liking, and didn't want to spend the necessary hours practising.

Like mum like son, sadly here!

[happychappy]

my daughters like that do. Shes 10. I have asked her to try and do something shes scared of failing at once a week. Its seems to be very slowly working!

[kitbit]

Perhaps set some smaller goals or introduce some easier activities that so he can set more easily achievable goals for himself and watch himself succeeding? It might boost his confidence and give him courage to go back to the bigger more long term stuff?

[gladbag]

My ds (4.9) can be similar, and was from much earlier on - we had the whole frustration and giving up thing. I've found that a whole emphasis on how brilliant 'changing your mind' is, and 'trying to do it differently' has worked wonders.

Ds liked the idea of inventors and scientists and 'clever' people trying out different things, getting it wrong, changing their mind and trying again. We tried to make it explicit in things we, as adults, were doing (writing a shopping list, and crossing things out, saying 'oh no, we don't need that, glad I remembered and changed it...' playing with lego 'I'm not sure I like my model, I wanted it to be.....can you help me change it', etc etc). It sounds rather balmy written down, but ds has got the idea, and he's much better. He knows that telling me he got something wrong, but tried again and changed it is something to be celebrated iyswim. Does take a while though.

[Fillyjonk]

great replies, off to take a look at the other thread

but re inventors, scientists-briliant idea! He is very into science and scientists.

oh dear off I go to amazon again...

[PeaMcLean]

Hi Filly, I'm beginning to think it's remarkably common. I posted on a similar subject here and since then have seem people say very similar things about their children.

I'm hoping it's just a phase.

Also, I think I'm getting better at spotting the flash points. I wanted to show DS how to do tonguing on the recorder and I knew it could become an issue so I told him we would do it for two minutes then no more. So even though he did it, just, and then started to get wound up cos it wasn't perfect, we were able to walk away without any sense of failure cos we were only doing it for two minutes. Those were the rules. But I guess that's not going to work every time.

[Fillyjonk]

oh god minkus that thread is SO helpful. That IS ds. He is clearly bright. And he will try most things but some things he will give up rather than fail.

[Fillyjonk]

useful idea, limiting it

He wants to learn violin. I am obviously deligted but already dreading it. I may say "10 minutes practice is ALL YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DO".

[PeaMcLean]

and this is part of the same problem for us ie DS getting sooooo frustrated by failure and then giving up altogether.

Don't know if that helps you but in sharing this I'm just trying to convince myself that DS is very normal!

[Fillyjonk]

oh god BLOODY mental maths, oh yes

I have had him screaming on the floor "I DON'T GET IT! I DON'T GET IT!" when all I have done is to point out that if his sister had s 12 buttons and he only has 6 then he needs twice as many to have as many as her.

Whereas dd1 would be "I don't get it. tralala". Which is odd, because generally she is more prone to tantrums, but she seems quite happy to fail at stuff to learn.

I think with ds it is partly an oldest child thing, btw.

[Fillyjonk]

And the thing is, when he calms down he will often, say, take the bloody buttons and say "yes, Mummy, see, you ARE right, I DO need twice as many."

So he actually can do it, but it is as though if it does not click immediately, he panics.

But he gets SO upset.

[pooter]

have you thought about trying to learn something completely new yourself - with your son, so he can SEE you struggling? The french horn? didgeridoo? swahili? circus skills? preferably something he will pick up quicker than you!

[Fillyjonk]

actually thats not a bad idea

we are going to do suzuki vioin but-I play the violin a little, so that is not going to help!

Circus skills might be a good one actually, he is much more co-ordinated than me...

[pooter]

get a unicycle!!

and post the piccies on MN!!

[Takver]

I second pooter's idea, my dd is very similar, it really helps for us that she is fluent in Welsh & I speak it appallingly. I make a point of getting her to help me, correct my pronunciation etc. I also try to make the point that even though my Welsh is very bad, it is still useful, and that if I practice it will get better (hmm, maybe might get better would be true-er . . .)

[PandaG]

my DS is quite similar

we went roller blading as a family a couple of weeks ago, I had never done it before, so we learnt how to stay on our feet (or not) together. was quite quick to get to grips with, so as a one off learning together could be fun?

[BitOfFun]

I was the same- I vividly remember turning my nose up at the paintbrushes in playgroup , aged 2 ffs! I thought that if we didn't have pallet knives like on Paint Along With Nancy, and start every piece by drawing out a grid first then it was WRONG I TELL YOU, WRONG!! I'm afraid it is a personality trait I still struggle with, so I hope you find some good advice here

[PetitFilou1]

fillyjonk my ds (5 in Feb) is exactly the same. But both me and dh are perfectionists so it is unsurprisingly that he has inherited the trait.

It is so hard to see them getting so frustrated and it actually makes me feel really angry when he won't let me show him how to do it.

I have been scared of failing all my life and have missed out on things as a result. I didn't get much praise as a child and never felt good enough. I think with children like this they need to be heaped with it to give them enough self esteem and confidence to try and to keep going.

Apart from that I don't have any answers but let me know if you find something that works!

[Minkus]

petitfilou for you- I've recently realised that this is me too. I'm a right wordsworth in that I love the English language in all shapes and forms, but have a strong memory of showing my mum a story I'd written when I was 9 or so and she really laughed at it. I never did another as I felt so ashamed and embarrassed. Poor mum, she'd be horrified if she realised. I have always though of myself as an "achiever", but have twigged that I only do stuff I am pretty sure I'm going to be good at! As a result I think I am quite dull nowadays because nothing interesting is easy . I can't imagine ever mocking anything either of my ds's produce- the fact that they might want to share it with me in the first place is a sort of reward.

[WowOoo]

My mum used to let us fail at stuff, but never things she knew we could do well.

I would argue that actually I COULD NOT DO certain things but glad I was gently pushed and shown how to do it. Sometimes days later with a fresh mind though...!

Can you jsut come back to some things later or suggest you'll find another way to explain it. Getting your child to explain what they understand to you could help you see where they're stuck...(sure you're doing all this)