family life not as I imagined it

[walnut87]

Hi. I think I need to get this off my chest and just wondering if anyone has been through similar and found that it gets better. This is long, I apologise and thank you I’m advance if you read it.

I had my first baby earlier this year. This year has admittedly been ridiculous with us all having to shield, partner working at home for six months off kitchen table and worrying about his job and studying. The stress has been a lot to take and I had PND early on. I’m much more level now but panicky about going back to work soon.

I’m just struggling as I feel, to be honest, like we aren’t a family unit. He has said he has struggled to adjust. I know he loves us very much but he is so desperate to cling onto his old life it’s impossible for me to talk to him about it... it is hard to communicate with him about this stuff and I am trying lots of techniques and things change for a couple of days then go back.

He is working really hard at work and then on the weekend has a huge list of stuff he wants to get done, some for us but lots for him or other people. He is very generous with his time for his family and friends. he is often late to work/home and when I tried to get to the bottom of it he was weird with me. He takes it as a given that he can just get up and go and do things without negotiating time with me for looking after our daughter, if that makes sense? I am expected to use her naptime to do what I want to do.. which is basically impossible as there is housework to do (I don’t have high standards in this department either) or sleep to catch up on. He has apologised once for being selfish but that hasn’t changed things. He does a LOT for us but it isn’t a) childcare or b) looking after me. If I raise things he just goes on a rant about how busy he is... Perhaps I just need to get a grip? Am I expecting too much?

We’ve barely done anything fun together all year, I know it’s been crazy but I had this dream of taking time to do stuff together as the three of us, go see new places, but I can barely get him out of the house. He can’t take holiday because work is weird. With covid cases rising I don’t see how this is going to get any better. He literally hasn’t taken any photos of me and our daughter since April, it’s sort of like this precious time of her life is just disappearing away and he’s not a part of it? When I say anything he just says “well I was at home for six months so got to see her whenever I wanted”

I bring baggage to the table because I was brought up by my dad while my mum worked and so I am aware and always trying to balance my expectations of him. His family were and still are very traditional. I was brought up to be really independent but increasingly feel like I’m being squished into this old fashioned female role. He’s rarely asked how I am, even when I’m at my lowest. It’s like all empathy has gone out the window.

Is this just an adjustment period? I love him very much but I’ve found myself so frustrated with him SO often this year I am worried that it will be this way forever. Is this just a thing families go through before they find a happy equilibrium? I have no idea how we will manage when i go back to work and I mentioned it to him and he became incredibly defeatist. He is clinging to pre-fatherhood life but I am sort of desperately trying to cling onto some semblance of me. Hoping someone can give me some hope that this is all just temporary >.

[FizzingWhizzbee123]

I’d say a lot of it is temporary. The first year with a baby (especially your first baby) is hard, it can be a really adjustment. Life in a pandemic is shit. Adjusting to life with a baby in a pandemic is double shit. Personally I’m hunkering down for a rubbish winter and hoping everything feels a bit better by spring.

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

Keep in mind that men can suffer from a form of PND too. Maybe worth considering?

For us it was a massive adjustment. I had my baby in March and it took us both a lot to adjust to our new life. At the start we both went out together with the baby, just for walks. It felt forced at the time, but im glad we did it. Can you just get him to go for a walk around the block or something? Then build to something bigger?

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

www.nct.org.uk/life-parent/emotions/postnatal-depression-dads-10-things-you-should-know



Just a bit about it in Dads. I feel its important and it very rarely gets talked about, and often over looked.



Im not saying this is what your partner is suffering with at all, but I think its worth knowing about.

[SpaceOP]

I see the posters who will be quick to say he has post natal depression are here already....

OP, unfortunately, this is very common. The man honestly doesn't see how his life should change. The mother becomes the default parent and if he does do childcare/family stuff it is to "help" the mother etc not because it is part of his responsibilities.

I do think this happens even with the "good guys" which is annoying, but it is what it is. You need to keep having this conversations. Lots of people will offer suggestions on how to try to manage this but I thin it depends on you, him, the relationship etc.

You could try pointing out repeatedly, that you seem to be the default parent and that these days, if he is off doing his own thing or helping someone else it affects you in a way that it didn't before.

You could try handing off the baby one morning and just heading out in exactly the same way he does (or announcing you'll be at XX on Saturday) or whatever.

Ask him if he really thinks you should be "working" 24/7 when he doesn't.

Tell him what you want to do as a family activity.

Does he have particular child caring responsibilities eg bedtime etc? if not, put in place a few.

Stop being default for naps, nappies, food etc. If you can't rely on him to notice, then hand baby over at changing/nap/food time and leave him to it.

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

@spaceOP do you know what, your post makes me so angry. How DARE you belittle it. Its attitudes like that which make it go undiagnosed. Im not 'quick' to diagnose him, im saying its worth keeping in mind. If it is the case then essentially saying 'just get on with it' isnt going to help at all. In fact it'll make things worse. Kindly do one with your derogatory attitude.

OP I stand by what I said. It MIGHT be PND. It might not be. A big part of adjusting for me and my partner was to start doing small things together, like a walk around the block. Then when that became comfortable we started doing bigger things like going to get a coffee. He does have to put the effort in though, and there MIGHT be an underlying reason why he's not and essentially avoiding family life.

[SpaceOP]

[quote Letsallscreamatthesistene]@spaceOP do you know what, your post makes me so angry. How DARE you belittle it. Its attitudes like that which make it go undiagnosed. Im not 'quick' to diagnose him, im saying its worth keeping in mind. If it is the case then essentially saying 'just get on with it' isnt going to help at all. In fact it'll make things worse. Kindly do one with your derogatory attitude.

OP I stand by what I said. It MIGHT be PND. It might not be. A big part of adjusting for me and my partner was to start doing small things together, like a walk around the block. Then when that became comfortable we started doing bigger things like going to get a coffee. He does have to put the effort in though, and there MIGHT be an underlying reason why he's not and essentially avoiding family life. [/quote]
I don't mind that you're angry. I just am tired of men's bad behaviour being written off to mental health issues. I don't think we should be defaulting to thinking that a man has PND when he's behaving selfishly. Not least because most women I know with PND certainly don't.

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

Why? If a woman had come on here and said something like, 'im always trying to find ways to avoid family life with my new baby', it'd be jumped all over with labels of PND. Nobody gets 'sick' of suggestions of mental illness in that circumstance. In fact, if that poster was told to 'just get on with it', they'd be called out for being horrible/harsh/uncaring. Its funny how sex/gender colours things, isnt it?

Nobodies defaulting to anything. Ive quite clearly said it MIGHT be PND, then gone on to suggest practical ways of how me and my partner started the process of adjusting.

Also, you cant say that just because women dont behave selfishly in PND, men wont. Depression manifests differently in different people. You can never say that just because someones depression looks one way, it'll be the same in someone else.

[ElspethFlashman]

Yeahhhhhhh....

Or its more likely that he's come from a traditional family and now he's part of a new traditional family.

Its just taking you a while to catch up.

You do all the baby and household shit, he gets to be the Golden Boy of his work and his first family. (You know, those people who are more important than you).

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

It MIGHT be that too! 🤷‍♀️



My point was that nobody can just wipe mental health as a reason, just because hes a man.

[Time40]

a huge list of stuff he wants to get done, some for us but lots for him or other people. He is very generous with his time for his family and friends

He needs to cut back on the amount of time he spends helping others, and start taking his own new responsibilities seriously. He's letting you do all the work so he continues to look good - as the poster above said, like the golden boy - to other people. He is treating you as the least important person in his family and social circle.

[Hellothere19999]

My situation is vaguely similar but not loads...my partner does help, however I understand how you feel. The thing that changed things for my partner and also made him open up abit (I had been feeling quite miserable) was making him look after dd for a day. I dunno if this would work for you but at the end of this day with her (he took her to see family so had help) i asked him to get the washing out of the dryer too and he said he’d found the whole day so hard and so tiring! It meant we really discussed the changes and how it really isn’t what you expect etc and how tiring it is. Things have been a lot better since then tbh. Maybe you could try?

[Disappointedkoala]

It's a big period of adjustment - my OH struggled especially when DD was young because he did really know how to play with her or what he was meant to do when she didn't really need anything! I remember feeling like I was just being left with all the childcare while he did more interesting things - I was incredibly jealous of him painting the shed. He is a much better toddler parent than he was a baby parent - he seems to have infinite patience for trips to the playground and can cajole her round the supermarket without threatening to put her in the trolley like I do!

We had several big long discussions about division of labour and worked out how to each have some leisure time to do as we pleased - key for me was getting out of the house during that time rather than ending up doing housework. It wasn't an overnight success and we still have the odd "are you joking me? You're going running now?" discussions through gritted teeth.

[ARoseInHarlem]

IME many men don't know what to do, how to do it, or get why they should. They weren't pregnant, they didn't give birth. Their connection to the baby at this stage often looks more detached than a mother's (they're cute, sense of responsibility to provide, want to "help", love them, but they're unfathomable, crying, loud, messy blobs that don't do anything and they have the option - because you're there - of not trying to figure it out). Many many times, also, the baby wants the mother, often because the father hasn't put in the time for the baby to learn to want to him, so it becomes a vicious cycle.

It's shit, and one of the things that can happen to a woman that makes her grasp just how different (worse off) she is from a man. It gets better as the child grows older. But it should;t have to be this way to begin with.

Hand your baby off to him one weekend day. As long as the baby is safe, fed and loved, it will be fine. You need to start finding your own boundaries within the new family. Babies take up a lot of space in their parents' lives, but it shouldn't all fall on one parent's shoulders.

[walnut87]

Thank you so much everyone, there have been some really helpful suggestions & comments.

I definitely need to take the initiative and put in place some things for me to enjoy, and family activities also. And expect him to make time for them and value them myself. He’s probably only ever done three hours max alone with her.

And yes you’re absolutely right, I have slipped into his a traditional family without me realising it... agh. It’s not like he has a role model to know any better, all his mates and colleagues are the same. Need to find a way to restore the balance in our life before I implode.

I have often felt he has prioritised work and he has certainly worked an insane amount throughout most of our relationship so I need to stop enabling that. He is worried about losing it in an upcoming recession and spends a lot of time telling me that I don’t understand how his job works (private sector vs me being a teacher) which often makes me see red ha.

He does contribute by doing all the renovations in the house, & he does do dishes/laundry when he sees it needs doing. He does bedtime routine with me. I’m just sad because it feels like we’re missing out on family life and being a threesome so-to-speak, and I’m struggling to get him to understand how important this is, or that it’s even a thing. Or that it’s even worth documenting.

To those who suggested pnd, thank you, we have looked into this already as I was worried about him a lot too early on & was aware of it in men. I don’t believe it is this (and neither does he). x

[walnut87]

Thank you @Disappointedkoala @ARoseInHarlem. That is what I was hoping, that with age comes more connection between them. Really reassuring thank you. It’s obviously going to require more conversations with an extremely reticent man to get the division of labour thing with DD right tho ha. I’ll just have to be braver and and not worry about pissing him off by saying how I feel. It feels like I’ve spent big chunks of this year just raging over how few breaks he gives me and holding it in. So yeah, I can’t go on like this. My health visitor told me it was normal ... I really dont feel like this should be, as you say.

[FTMF30]

OP, it is an adjustment period. When I first had my DS, I secretly longed for my old life. But then my baby became more interactive, independent and settled into a routine. I have also become more confident as a mother and it feels so much better. It's not just a case of getting used to it - I actually enjoy things the way they are and where they are heading.

The early days were really a test of my will power, so I can only imagine what it would be like during a pandemic with so much restrictions.

Whether your DH is just being a dick or having his own mental health issues, his world has been rocked too. But whilst being mindful of that, stand up for yourself. You can't pour from an empty cup.

[goisey]

@ElspethFlashman

Yeahhhhhhh....

Or its more likely that he's come from a traditional family and now he's part of a new traditional family.

Its just taking you a while to catch up.

You do all the baby and household shit, he gets to be the Golden Boy of his work and his first family. (You know, those people who are more important than you).

Sound like this to me

[UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme]

Postnatal Depression is caused by the biological, hormonal system of a biological female immediately following pregnancy and giving birth. Fathers can experience dituational depression when their lives change abruptly and its to ve taken seriously but it is not post natal depression because their bodies and hormone systems have not supported a pregnancy and the very biological aftermath.

[UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme]

situational obviously, not dituational

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

No it isnt. PND isnt diagnosed immediately after labour. There are hormonal fluctuations after birth, but they shouldnt be confused with PND. Its absolutely not the same.

[BlingLoving]

" If a woman had come on here and said something like, 'im always trying to find ways to avoid family life with my new baby', it'd be jumped all over with labels of PND. Nobody gets 'sick' of suggestions of mental illness in that circumstance. In fact, if that poster was told to 'just get on with it', they'd be called out for being horrible/harsh/uncaring. "

Except women dont come on saying this. They come on saying they aren't enjoying it, that they love the vavy but aren't sure it was the right decision etc etc. Thy dont just abdicate all responsibility and carry on their old lives like the baby never happened. PND, like many forms of depression, is also characterised by a deep sense of guilt for feeling this way.

A man out enjoying hobbies, social life, helping others etc is not feeling any of this. He might well be thinking, "fuck me, this baby thing is far more hardcore than I expected" but instead of accepting the reality of life hes just ignoring it. That's not a mental health problem. It's a selfish man problem.

[madcatladyforever]

No he won't change. He's showing you what he is. I'm appalled he spends so little time with his child and has basically handed it all to you and doesn't take any pictures of your baby. Did he want this child or did it just happen? I'd be serious concerned.

[madcatladyforever]

I totally agree bling loving.

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

He might well be thinking, "fuck me, this baby thing is far more hardcore than I expected" but instead of accepting the reality of life hes just ignoring it.

Or hes using the very classic avoidance technique. Who are you to say how depression may manifest in men? Its not the same in men and women. This is exactly why mens mental health in general is poorly diagnosed.

[Never0000]

I think this is really common. It certainly resonates 100% with my experience too. It suddenly got much much better at about the 2 / 2.5 year mark.