Nice White Parents

[Sugarintheplum]

This podcast has been fascinating. Has anyone else been listening?

I've long seen that reflected in my life / kids lives. But what I am still lacking is an understanding of the thought process these parents go through.

For example, I used to send my children to a very diverse tap / ballet /drama class where I lived previously. It was very mixed ethnically. Lovely lovely place. Where I live now the classes are more expensive (the area is still very diverse), and the kids who attend these classes are more than likely white and middle class. I yearn for other kids who look like my kids to join for a myriad of reasons. There IS a ballet school in this part of town that has the stated mission to improve representation of ethnic minorities in ballet through the adult core to the school for children. There is a waiting list BUT STILL white parents send there kids there. This means ethnic minority children are waiting while white children take up the place. I see that and honestly wonder what the parents are thinking. And this is just a tiny example, but it happens in other aspects of life, too.

It needs to be explained to me because I'm truly lost!

[OverTheRainbow88]

I’m confused by what you mean?

Surely the waiting list is for all children regardless of skin colour?

[Thisisnotnormal69]

There is a waiting list BUT STILL white parents send there kids there. This means ethnic minority children are waiting while white children take up the place.

Totally agree with the sentiment - but why would the white parents stop sending their kids there? And why is it white children are in the class and only ethnic minority children on lists?

[Sunshineandsparkle]

If it’s a nice dance school in a mixed area, why would white parents not be allowed to send their children there? I’m assuming they just operate as first come first served?

[workhomesleeprepeat]

Couldn’t make it through the first episode. The sanctimonious charity fundraiser parents and the stuck in their ways PTA...just such a refusal to even try to understand eachother. I’m mixed btw went to v mixed schools.

I don’t really understand your question though...are you asking why white parents persist i sending their kids to where other white people are? Because there’s a fairly simple answer to that.

[theconstantinoplegardener]

Why wouldn't white parents send their children to the ballet school that wants to increase the representation of minority ethnic children in ballet, if it's local and good? Presumably children of any ethnic background are welcome. Are you suggesting that ballet schools should operate a kind of apartheid - one ballet school for the white kids, another for the BAME kids?

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

BUT STILL white parents send their kids there

Would you prefer it if white people kept to ourtselves? Or perhaps you'd like a quota system based on ethnicity? Im being facetious, but your post reads a little negatively

[toomanyspiderplants]

Why shouldn't white kids go....I don't understand?

[formerbabe]

So there's a waiting list...surely the waiting list is on a first come, first served basis rather than white children first.

[Sugarintheplum]

Hi All,

The stated mission is to increase the participation of Black and ethnic minorities in ballet. The entire adult troupe is BAME. The ballet school for children is mostly BAME at the moment but with increasing numbers of white children there.

I'm all for diversity. In this case the mission was to run a school to encourage BAME children specifically. My question is - if you respect the school's aim to increase participation of BAME in ballet, why would you, as a white parent, want to send your white children there? There are lots of ballet schools around, but likely not so many where BAME are as welcome and encouraged, which is the POINT OF THE SCHOOL!

It's interesting in itself that I have been asked to explain this. I do find that interesting, i'm not being rude!

For me it shows that despite months of BLM people really aren't getting it! I'm not sure what can be done about that....

[sleepyhead]

I think sometimes it's because these white families want their children to mix with a diverse group - I don't think they realise that they're potentially pushing out families who wouldn't feel comfortable in a less diverse (or all-white) class, and that by dint of sheer numbers they will end up making it less diverse...

So yes, if the goal is to make the activity more accessible to children who come from backgrounds where they haven't accessed those resources at the same rate as white families you should prioritise that target group - at the expense of white families who have other classes they can access.

[PaulinePetrovaPosey]

As the mother of a BAME child, I'd absolutely detest white kids to avoid the kind of classes you're talking about. I don't want my DD to be separated from the mainstream.

[Sunshineandsparkle]

@Sugarintheplum

Hi All,

The stated mission is to increase the participation of Black and ethnic minorities in ballet. The entire adult troupe is BAME. The ballet school for children is mostly BAME at the moment but with increasing numbers of white children there.

I'm all for diversity. In this case the mission was to run a school to encourage BAME children specifically. My question is - if you respect the school's aim to increase participation of BAME in ballet, why would you, as a white parent, want to send your white children there? There are lots of ballet schools around, but likely not so many where BAME are as welcome and encouraged, which is the POINT OF THE SCHOOL!

It's interesting in itself that I have been asked to explain this. I do find that interesting, i'm not being rude!

For me it shows that despite months of BLM people really aren't getting it! I'm not sure what can be done about that....

I don’t think you are for diversity if you think white children should be excluded purely because of the colour of their skin.

I’m guessing the parents send their children there as they liked the school or thought it was the best one. If you have an issue, I think you should take your concerns to whoever runs school as they make the decision as to who gets in and who doesn’t. If they operate on a first come, first served, surely it’s discrimination to not admit a child based on their ethnicity?

[formerbabe]

I sent my mixed race dc to ballet classes in an affluent area. Why wouldn't I?

[formerbabe]

And your thread title is misleading. I'm white but my dc are bame. White parents doesn't automatically mean white children.

[Sugarintheplum]

@PaulinePetrovaPosey That's interesting - are you BAME yourself? Specifically a visibly BAME person?

[Sugarintheplum]

@formerbabe I'm aware of that. I'm not sure what makes you think I might not be. I'm not talking about the children's motives at all. I'm talking about parents who are white. Therefore I don't really understand your question. Also affluent doesn't necessarily mean white - or does it mean this to you?

I can see this is becoming there are some defensive comments coming. That's fine, and it's interesting that people would be defensive about BAME people wanting to carve out a space for themselves. It feels like we're not allowed. That's the feeling I'm getting from some of these posts.

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

Surely you want white kids to mix with BAME kids? The rub is, that in this case, those white kids are blocking the membership of the BAME kids. Theres no real solution here. What would you rather? A mix of kids, all doing ballet together? Or increased representation of BAME kids in ballet? Depends what your priority is, I guess.

People DO get it, I think its really inflammatory to say otherwise.

[ChristinaW16]

Kids often want to attend the same classes as their school friends. That has been the main factor for us in choosing which classes they attend, to the extent my twins attend different Beaver groups. Their best mates are of a different ethnicity to them. So what would you suggest in that case?

[Sugarintheplum]

@formerbabe - if you're interested pls take a look at the podcast I referenced. Nice White Parents isn't something I came up with. It might more sense then: www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html

[Eyewhisker]

Segregation does not lead to racial harmony.

[Letsallscreamatthesistene]

Nope, BAME people are allowed. Whats pissed me off is that you automatically assume people dont get it because you've been asked to explain yourself more.

[sleepyhead]

The point is increasing the number of BAME children participating in ballet surely? It's got nothing to do with wanting white and BAME children to mix in this situation. It's got nothing to do with white children at all.

[LadyCatStark]

Surely it would be better for all the ballet schools to actively encourage children from BAME backgrounds to attend rather than having one for BAME children and lots for white children.

[PaulinePetrovaPosey]

@Sugarintheplum I'm Jewish but not necessarily visibly 'other', DH is British Indian.

Maybe it's because we're a very mixed family, but I really worry that anything aimed specifically at non-white populations just entrenches division.

[Beamur]

I see what you mean.
I'd guess the parents send their kids there because it's more convenient location, a good school etc. They probably don't consider that their child is displacing someone else.
I think the school is perhaps giving a mixed message by saying it's promoting one thing, yet it's admissions process isn't actually achieving that.