Finishing School or Elocution?

[silverflowers]

We've always entertained the idea of finishing school, never sure whether we were serious or not. My dd has now expressed and interest and wants to fit in more with her upper middle class and upper class peers. We have no problem with this but we know most classes are spread by word of mouth and don't have websites as such. Does anyone have any suggestions for good lessons or courses for her? Dd is 13.

[omBreROSE]

[Elocutioner]

Finishing school is for after school. When school is finished.

She can go to Switzerland for a year to learn how to lay a table when she's 18. I'm sure she'll love it.

[Chathamhouserules]

www.mindingmanners.com/lm-international-finishing-school

[rougebuterfly]

I went to finishing school 18 years ago, as I thought it too would help me fit in with my upper middle class friends, as I came from a traditional working class Yorkshire village.

However what I learnt was unless you are born into that class (upper middle or upper class) you will never be accept and you will be seen as trying to hard to fit in.

Now I’m old and more confident person, I can hold my own (and be proud of my Yorkshire roots) with anyone from any social class and not worry about fitting in.

[rougebuterfly]

I went to finishing school 18 years ago, as I thought it too would help me fit in with my upper middle class friends, as I came from a traditional working class Yorkshire village.

However what I learnt was unless you are born into that class (upper middle or upper class) you will never be accepted and you will be seen as trying too hard to fit in.

Now I’m older and a more confident person, I can hold my own (and be proud of my Yorkshire roots) with anyone from any social class and not worry about fitting in.

[EllenRipley]

[yorkshireyummymummy]

Why don’t you ask the parents of your daughters upper middle class and upper class friends? Haven’t you any upper middle class and upper class friends to ask yourself?
They might not respond of course as you sound a teeny weeny bit like a social climber and upper middle class and upper class people don’t like social climbers.
Why not get her to do a season as a chalet maid? ( don’t worry with your social standing. A lot of upper middle class and upper class gels do this)
Or, maybe do some voluntary work and develop a bit of character and a moral compass.
Unless you want her just to marry a wealthy man and run a house then finishing school is probably unnecessary in the year 2018. Don’t you want her to use her brain?
Although frankly, if your daughter - going by the title of your thread- needs elocution lessons at 13 then you should get her speech sorted first because no one with any class or breeding ( don’t equate these with wealth. They are very different) would be poorly spoken at 13. And the finishing schools won’t take her if her accent is not ‘right’.

Maybe tell your daughter that education is what she should be focusing on rather than crass social climbing. You can learn deportment, flower arranging and how to do a perfect seating plan from YouTube, a local florists and buying a copy of Debretts!
You are not really giving her the tools to be a strong woman are you? Do you really just want her to be somebody’s wife and a brood mare?? This IS 2018 you know, not 1870!

[lils888]

It's 2018.

Get a grip.

[QueenoftheSilverDollar12]

Blimey 🙄

[OutyMcOutface]

Why aren't they teaching her these things st school? All good schools have the elocution/table manners/appropriate dress sorted before the children are sent off to public school. Then the finish touches are applied in their early teens. If she is really struggling maybe you should put her in to board (I am assuming from your interest in lessons that she is s day girl?)

[Fluteytootey]

I didn't realise that finishing schools were still a thing!

[squarecorners]

At her age getting a hobby that she can fit in with the set with will be much better. Horses are expensive but that tends to be what works - the added benefit is that horsey girls seem to leave it later until they're interested in boys because they're too busy mucking out etc!
Having known some very posh people in my time the thing that helps you fit in is just being proud of who you are. A person who accepts who they are and where they're from (without making glaring errors like my husband did at a dinner where he started cutting his bread roll in half and buttering it like a sandwich) is more likely to fit in than a person who is very try hard and tries to fake a posh persona.

[Elocutioner]

Buttering a roll is hardly a "glaring error". It's 2018 fgs.

[squarecorners]

It is at an army regimental dinner. An email went out to the entire officers mess about it.

[yorkshireyummymummy]

It might not be a ‘glaring error’ at a family dinner table but in public or at an official function I’m afraid it’s bad manners and some people may consider it a lack of breeding. Table manners are not difficult to acquire and I can understand why squarecorners husband got into bother doing it at a regimental dinner which are extremely rigid, traditional and shit hot on behaving correctly. You are not representing yourself, you represent your regiment so your manners need to be perfect.

[squarecorners]

@yorkshireyummymummy you've got it bang on. Since that email went out (and it was a good while ago now when he was a junior officer) he has become very self conscious about even quite minor etiquette matters, basically because he's ended up in quite a senior position having started life in quite a rough working class area with a very noticeable accent, and his idea of formal dining was getting scraps on your chips. He now takes aside his young officers that he thinks don't quite get it and lets them know what tie to wear in what knot, how to address various people, who you speak to in order at formal functions etc etc. I had a very different upbringing (although I'm pretty much solidly middle class, but had very socially aware parents who were determined that I should be able to fit in in a working man's club or at a state banquet) so I never had to consciously learn this stuff but it's just very useful to know what will trip you up.

[iklboo]

Odd question - if you're not supposed to butter your roll at the table, why do they put butter out with the rolls?

[BossWitch]

I also want know how you are supposed to eat the roll.

[user1474652148]

Debretts offer courses in London if you google it. This is largely aimed at the Chinese and international market I believe but also in confidence building for teens in social situation and etiquette

[user1474652148]

Situations

[CremeBrulee]

You eat it piece by piece, putting a knob of butter on the side of your plate and buttering each small piece as you go.

Surprised that this wasn't taught as part of services training - when my relies did officer training this was laughing referred to as the 'knife & fork course'.

[user1474652148]

I would be wary of too much focus on all this stuff - it could make your dd very self conscious and awkward. My advice would he too work on

[user1474652148]

Her conversation skills, confidence and current affairs so she can hold her own. The point being all the titled families around here are scruffy as heck with terrible table manners! I think table manners only matter to the middle classes!

[iklboo]

To be honest I'd rather my regiment be well trained & effective in defence / combat than know how to butter your cob at dinner

[Jackiebrambles]

OMG at the roll buttering faux pas.

Fuck me don't the army have bigger fish to fry?