Struggling to know what to do to help my DD (5yrs), would appreciate advice

[RuthieBabeee]

DD2 is 5.5years old and we are having ongoing issues with her wetting herself and now starting to tell fibs to try to hide the wetting.

She has been previously been potty trained, she was potty trained a little after she turned 3 and whilst she has always had the odd accident (when tired or stuck in the car a long time) she is now wetting herself everyday, sometimes more than once a day.

She comes home from school wet everyday, the school have tried to put in place things to help her and they work for a week or so then we're back to the same story.

At home we have spent months with sticker charts and chocolate bars, rewarding keeping herself dry. When there is a chocolate bar at risk she can keep herself dry for weeks on end; take away the reward and she just wets herself again. I can't give her a chocolate bar every afternoon forever though, at some point she needs to just do it for herself.

She says she is choosing to wet herself because she doesn't want to miss any of the game she's playing or any of the work she's doing at school.

She has started to lie about whether she needs to go, saying she doesn't need a wee and then wetting herself 5 minutes later. She apologises and says she lied because she didn't want to go to the toilet.

I'm at the end of my tether now and (shamefully) I yelled at her lastnight. I asked her if she needed a wee before we sat at the table for dinner. She said she didn't need it. I asked if she was sure and maybe she should just go for a try, she was insistent that she didn't need a wee. A few minutes later she wet herself at the dinner table. I was furious that she'd lied to me, when I was trying to help her by reminding that she might need a wee before dinner. She apologised and said she knew she needed a wee but just hadn't wanted to go.

Telling her off lastnight obviously made no difference though because tonight when she came home from school I asked them to go upstairs, go to the bathroom and put their play clothes on. When I went up I asked them if they'd remembered to have a wee. DD2 said she had, I was pretty sure she hadn't (she takes ages and its hadn't been long) so I asked her again. She still insisted that she had been to the bathroom. When I went to ask her sister if she really had been she starting apologising and saying she'd go now instead. She had a time-out for fibbing.

I'm exhausted with it, its everyday and I worry about sending her to playdates and parties. She's getting to an age where I think others might start picking on her.

I've had a chat with her tonight, stressing the need to be truthful and to make the right choice to go to the toilet to keep herself clean and dry. We've taken her to the GP already, they checked on multiple occasions and she doesn't have a UTI. The doctor wasn't much help beyond that.

What should I be doing?

[KatyN]

I would be tempted to keep up the reward for longer. Do you know why she takes ages?? Maybe once she has learnt to be a bit quicker you can lose the reward?? Also maybe set a timer to remind her to go at certain points... It took me ages to realise that I go for a wee when I need one but also if I'm leaving the house, sitting down to watch a film Etx. I wee at strategic points so I'm not desperate later. Trying to teach my son about strategic wees has been HARD!

[RuthieBabeee]

I could but I really don't want her to have a chocolate bar after school everyday, it's not good for her. Plus I end up having to give something to my other DD because it isn't fair that one gets chocolate everyday. Nothing else has ever worked though.

[Alfabetibisgetti]

Longer term reward instead of daily?
Or smaller daily reward for eg a magic star or Choc coin?

Or could you time a trip to the loo including washing hands and then time everything that has to happen after an accident. Let her see that she's missing much more by not going to the toilet in time.

I'm no expert though. Just ideas.

[NormHonal]

I'm of the "whatever works/gets you through" school of parenting.

I agree on cutting back to a chocolate coin. And I don't see the harm in one of those every day for both of your children, for as long as it takes.

I live in a naice, educated area and honestly, all parents seem to pump their DCs full of sugar after school most days.

[RuthieBabeee]

I honestly don't think she'd bother to keep herself dry for just a choc button, she wouldn't say anything or be rude about it at all, but I don't think she'd see it as an incentive. I could try though if we decide to go down that route.

We're also in a naice, educated area but I'm an overbearing mum keen that treats should be at the weekend, not everyday

[educatingarti]

I think I'd maybe insist on her going to the loo at set points when she is at home- eg immediately after school, after she has been playing for an hour or so, immediately before meal etc. Don't ask if she needs to go, just insist that she "tries". Supervise if need be or if she continues to fib about going.

I'm wondering if there have been any changes at home that means she feels she is having less attention than before as it could be an attention seeking thing. You could try giving her some additional totally unrelated positive attention (without saying that you are going to) and see if that helps at all.

[RuthieBabeee]

Going back to school seemed to really kick it off, though we'd had problems leading up to that too. We've moved to a completely new area, they changed schools last year.... its been a tricky!

[Alonglongway]

Have you seen the school toilets - is that an issue? One of my girls would never use school toilets and would prefer to run the risk of wetting herself. I complained about broken locks and it improved a little

[mawbroon]

Yes, was going to also mention school toilets.

Ds2 is 5yo, turned out he was petrified of the urinal and would rather wet himself than go into the school toilets. There was also a lesser fear of falling down any toilet so always insisted I go with him.

Could it be something like that?

[NoSquirrels]

I think I probably wouldn't "reward" not wetting, as you could be unwittingly prolonging the behaviour - any attention is good attention etc., and it's a relatively easy win for her. And as you say, DC2, so probably out for a bit more attention and one over on their sibling about the chocolate bars...?

I also have 1 DC who goes from not at all needing a wee to being totally DESPERATE and liable to wet. It is in their case exactly the not wanting to miss out on something, or whatever's going on in their head being more important to them - bodily functions are dull and time-consuming.

But also in beginning of school, like PPs, there was a spiders in the toilet issue which led to a few incidents - always worth checking. Sounds like you are already working with school, though.

Do you get her to clean up after herself? I would (and have done) this. That's much more dull than stopping what you're doing to go to the toilet when you're asked. Treating her like a smaller child too - timed toilet trips accompanied by you, take her instead of just trusting her to go. Loss of TV time (or whatever) for insubordination and refusal to try ... not suggesting you "punish" the wetting, but you can punish the refusal to engage with simple steps to avoid it.

I think I'd try extra attention on the sly for being grown-up (praise something unrelated to the issue) plus behaviour modification by force - you will come to the toilet with me now -- and possibly switching the rewards so that your older DC can earn a chocolate button or smaller treat for "insert anything you like here" and so could she for "anything you like including being grown-up about going to the toilet".

[wigglesrock]

If you're keen to stay away from chocolate - what about a comic a week. I'm not well versed in star charts etc, but could you do the kind of thing my dds P1 class does. They get to colour in levels on a rocket and then they get a prize if they get to the top of the rocket - it's usually a pencil, rubber, sharpener type thing. I'd also take her to the toilet periodically, sit her on it and wait, make sure she doesn't need to go.

Another seconder for asking about the school toilets, is there always toilet roll, is she scared of getting locked in, is it very dark?

[RuthieBabeee]

Thanks for the input, really appreciate the replies and some great ideas. I spent ages on ERIC.Org.Uk last night and spoke with DH and my parents to see what they think would work best knowing DD2 and her personality.

We're going to make it her responsibility to clean herself up if she wets, I'm going to put a box in her room full of spare knickers, leggings and wet wipes. Hopefully she'll realise that it's easier to just go for a wee than it is to faff around cleaning up.

We've agreed not to punish any wetting but to punish refusal to go to the toilet when prompted. Fingers crossed!

Usually when we try a new tactic it works for a week or two then she tires of it and regresses again.

[RuthieBabeee]

Just thought I'd update, we've had 3 dry days in a row!!! Not sure if it will last but it's been a relief to know it is possible if she tries.

[educatingarti]

Yay! That's good to hear!

[NoSquirrels]

Brilliant. Keep consistent, bet it will pay off. I expect the threat of having to clean up is working!