Encourage, or discourage playing with these children?

[SophieHatters]

Ds1 is 12 and likes almost everyone. He is really sociable and always wants to be with friends, and is much happier like this.

There are a few boys in the street who are not very nice and I don't know whether to tell him not to play with them/hang around with them, or let him and see what happens.

I don't know if it is about his not having great boundaries, and taking stuff he shouldn't take iyswim, or if he knows what he's doing and can handle it?

The boys in question are unpleasant in different ways and might become lovely people eventually but one of them has sworn at ds, upset various other children, and when ds tells an adult what happened, he gets texts calling him a retard and so on. I advised blocking the number and he did and since then, the kid has apologised and they now hang out but only with other kids present - ie they are rubbing shoulders but not close.

I still worry he might try it on again and ds will end up hurt again.

The other kid lies all the time, swears at and tries to start fights with other kids, who ds gets on well with, and comes from a very unhappy family. I really feel uncomfortable about ds hanging around with him, because I think eventually he will start lying about ds as well. He constantly says things that are total rubbish about the other boys (so and so was horrible to him, said such and such, etc)

There are plenty of lovely boys I trust him with and think highly of.

So would you encourage him to follow his nose and hang about with anyone available, or to be more selective and have some standards about being lied to, being called names etc? I don't want him to think he has no option but to let them walk over him, but it seems like water off a duck at the moment and I don't know if this is a great quality to encourage iyswim.

[holeinmyheart]

This is a difficult one. We live in a small village and two boys came to live in it with their unmarried Mother who was pregnant . She came to our village to live with her Father in his tiny Hse, prior to being awarded a Council Hse elsewhere.
They were awful. They sucked enormous lollipops and dropped litter in our garden and spoke with an almost unintelligible local accent. My boys loved them. I did nothing except knash my teeth.
Eventually they were found to have broken into the nearby Primary school. My sons had the sense not to go in with them but confessed to me what had happened.
I then had the opportunity to say 'no more contact with them'
However my boys complained bitterly.
Now they are adults ( both In good careers) they do say they understand why I did what I did.
I think if you forbid your sons mixing with these horrible children they might see them as forbidden fruit.
Luckily mine went to different schools at 11 which helped and the other boys moved away after two years. Phew
One of my DD's has a friend I don't like now, but I just think you can't choose their friends.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

I would talk to him about friends and friendship generally. What makes a good friend, how to choose friends, the idea that it's ok not to be friends with someone who isn't nice to you and so on. Basically giving him the tools and the confidence to make the right choices. Maybe also talk about not going along with everyone else if something isn't right etc.

[SophieHatters]

Thank you so much. It is difficult, isn't it. I don't want him to end up in trouble for things they are doing. Already it's been a near miss as suspicion fell on him when one of them was trying to climb up a nearby building - I told the people that own it, as they asked if we knew anything, and ds was with me but kept whispering not to say, which looked really suspicious!

I knew he hadn't done anything but they can't know that.
I have to admit my feelings towards these boys are unsympathetic now - I started off feeling sorry for them but the attitude I get now if I answer the door and say no, ds can't come out, is horrible - one of them just turns and strolls away without speaking, sort of 'I don't care' thing going on, which I loathe.

I can't choose ds's friends on those grounds but when they are SO awful and so likely to get him into trouble, I feel I should.

It's good he can get along with them as they are often with his other friends, so it has to be harmonious to a point, but really, they don't deserve his friendship.

Recently a friend of ours was killed in his friend's new car, friend was drunk, they crashed...he was 19. That's been a good opportunity to talk about not going along with stuff, even if it is your friends doing it.

[SunshineAndShadows]

It depends relax ly on whether they're 'awful' because they have local accents, suck lollipops, and live with their single mum in a council house as per Hole's post.

Or whether they're actually unpleasant (which sounds more like your concern) I'd agree with Cukture he needs the tools to make the right choices. If you're in a small town/village then avoiding these lads won't be an option but Hebrews to learn to set his own limits

[SunshineAndShadows]

Oh ffs! Autocorrect that clearly doesn't work. He needs not Hebrews!

[holeinmyheart]

If I came over as a snob, then I am. The mother smoked and was pregnant ( I thought this was appalling) and the children swore like troopers, were out late at night and I suspected they smoked. I loathed those huge lollipops they sucked constantly because my children then wanted them.
I rationed all junk food and went to Mc Donald's once a year.
I didn't want my children slurring their words and not saying please and thank you, either.
The children came into my house and went into the cupboards and took things without asking. The whole philosophy of their family was different to mine.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Hole, what do you think the OP could do in her situation, based on your experience?

[SophieHatters]

Oh dear, diplomatic hat on...no, they aren't awful because of anything like that. In fact I felt very sorry for one of them for a while.

I am a single mother, no judging there...they speak nicely, too, surprisingly for this area. One of them continually talks about things that have happened that are probably not true. He is horrid about ds's other friends behind their backs and tries to start fights with them.

He is disadvantaged for sure, I know, because it is obvious, and I think he is left out all day because he isn't welcome at home. It is sad but he is turning into a nasty little thing, I suspect he is learning this aggressive behaviour at home. I don't want ds spending half an hour trying to break up a sweary, ugly fight between him and a good friend. I don't want ds to be lied about or to end up in a fight. It's simple really - I go on individual behaviour, not background though it clearly helps if you are from a family who behave well.
I hope he will turn out Ok one day but right now, he is just not nice to be around.

Other chap is having some trouble as he is fostered and some similar issues, but again, the talking behind backs, turning the boys against one another deliberately, game playing iyswim - making dramas where there should be none, perhaps to play out the issues he is struggling with.

Ds doesn't enjoy game playing, doesn't like being set up against his friends, none of that stuff comes easily to him. I am torn between letting him forge his own way and trying to rescue him from it.

ATM I end up standing behind him when he answers the door to them looking like a cross police person

[Potterwolfie]

Sadly some kids are forced to grow up before they should do, and tend to display different character traits than other children who are, perhaps, more 'protected' from life. This can make them behave in ways which seem at odds with how we think kids should be playing and interacting.

I think culture had it right with helping your son set his own boundaries, realise he has a choice about who he spends time with and when to say no, or back off, if things get tricky.

I'm trying to teach my two DSs this at the moment, with one friend who constantly plays war/fighting/battling games and can be quite aggressive. He's a nice kid, but let's just say that the R rated games he plays are having a massive impact on him!

[holeinmyheart]

I wish I knew what the solution is.
I just sucked up the situation until the boys broke into the School

I think the post is doing all she can to discourage her children from contact with these undesirables. I discouraged them if I got to the door first.

I am afraid that it is very hard being on your own. Although my DH was much more relaxed than I was.

She just has to keep saying 'no' and hopefully the other boys will give up.
I do think that in the end your standards prevail.