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Really need advise PLEASE!

(17 Posts)
4littleones Tue 05-Aug-14 23:57:00

Some of you may have read my thread last week that I was considering stopping my ex taking my DDs - age 5 and 6 on a holiday this week due to various issues, mainly trust and their safety (Not violence, just general bad parenting/lack of safety awareness etc).

Anyway, I ended up letting them go as his sister (who was also going on the holiday, as were all his family) phoned me and assured me that she would make sure everything went smoothly, that I could contact her instead of dealing with him, she would ensure the children were safe and they would phone me daily.

I dropped them off on Friday night and since then have discovered:
- I was lied to about where they were going

- I was lied to about who was going with them

- The phone calls have been massively limited, having a 1 min conversation with the girls with the adults constantly butting in telling them what to say. I have spoken to them twice, since friday, despite being promised daily phone calls.

- DD1 tried to tell me today about something that happened with DD2 involving "something dangerous" at the back of the caravan. My Ex told her not to tell me and she was then too scared to talk about it. I asked her if Daddy had told her not to tell me and she said yes but was then just saying "forget about it" "let's pretend I didn't say anything"
He eventually, after lots of probing admitted that DD2 had gone near the electrical supply thing that's on the outside of the caravan, she was round the back UNSUPERVISED. He then went on to say that he didn't tell DD1 not to tell me (which is bollox) despite the fact she was sat next to him listening to him call her a lier. She was clearly upset by this and I feel he put her in an awful situation. I am more pissed off about him telling DD1 not to tell me than anything else as this is so wrong in my opinion. I would never do that the other way round.

- My messages asking for an update of how they are/if I can speak to them, over the past few days have been ignored mainly. Therefore obviously I was concerned so would ask again after a good few hours - I am not silly and I know they will be busy but at the end of the day it's the first time they have been away from home and one of the conditions of them going were that I was kept in the loop and he had said he would send me "constant updates and photos" (His idea not mine).

I have expressed that I am unhappy about all the above and in doing so have had every member of the famiy who are on the holiday phone me shouting abuse at me down the phone. At one point yesterday he messaged me saying he was bringing the girls home cause it was too much hassle and I was pissing him off - I still have these messages. He then went on to tell the girls (and the rest of his family by the sounds of it) that I demanded them to come home. I have the messages saved to prove it was the other way round but even if it wasn't - why on earth would you upset the kids like that?!
Anyway, I am now being told that I have to leave them alone for the rest of the holiday or they will have me done for harassment!! Bearing in mind I haven't phoned them once. They have phoned me on numerous occasions shouting abuse at me. There are 4 adults there from his family, each one of them have had a go. But obviously I have no proof of this as it was by phone call so all i could prove is that he phoned but not what was said.
However I have admittedly sent texts. Nothing abusive though and not loads -just a couple of times a day asking if he would let me speak to them at some point that day when they got a min.
I did however message him about the incident today when I spoke to DDs - because he hung up on me with no explanation as to what had actually happened.

What on earth do I do? Obviously I have left it without contact since then but I want to know that my children are safe and happy and I want to be able to speak with them as I know the adults wouldn't tell me the truth.

I seriously wish I had listened to my instincts and not let them go sad

OutragedFromLeeds Wed 06-Aug-14 00:36:36

I don't think the 'dangerous incident' was that bad really. I think it's perfectly acceptable, when on a caravan holiday, to let a 5 year old and a 6 year old play outside the caravan unsupervised, unless they have SN?

Given your response to that I can see why he feels you're being a bit over the top/interfering.

What's happened to his sister? Have you tried speaking to her?

The lying about where they are/being abusive etc. is unacceptable. I'm not sure what you can do about it though, other than never let them go again.

4littleones Wed 06-Aug-14 00:54:52

like I said im not that concerned about the incident, im pissed that he put my daughter in a position where she was told to stop whilst telling me something, told that she couldn't tell me what happened and then he told me, in front of her that she was lying and he didn't tell her not to say anything, when actually he did. she was clearly upset and confused and im not suprised. I bring her up to be honest and truthful and yet her Dad is telling her to hide what happened and then openly lying and blaming her.

do you not see that as an issue?

4littleones Wed 06-Aug-14 00:56:17

his sister has said she wants nothing to do with it. funnily enough thats the opposite of what she was saying last week when convincing me to let them go.

OutragedFromLeeds Wed 06-Aug-14 02:09:24

Yeah I do see it as an issue. That's why I said it was unacceptable in my first post.

I don't know what you can do about it though. It doesn't warrant you removing them from the holiday imo, so all you can do is wait for them to come back and not let them go again.

4littleones Wed 06-Aug-14 07:19:03

I'm a bit confused about what you mrant in your first post. you say "given your response to that" - what response? .I don't think I've told you my response? confused

Mumof3xox Wed 06-Aug-14 07:26:45

His lying is unacceptable

His getting your dd to lie is also unacceptable

The fact that they have told you things to encourage you to allow your dcs to go on the holiday and then gone back on these things is also unacceptable

I personally have 5&6 year old boys. I wouldn't let them play outside a caravan on their own unless I was watching from a window which I did this year

However sadly I don't really know what you can do until they are back. I would just make sure you remember this in the future when agreeing to things with exp

When are they due back?

4littleones Wed 06-Aug-14 07:57:39

Not till Saturdaysad

OutragedFromLeeds Wed 06-Aug-14 12:57:35

I meant your response here, the need to put 'unsupervised' in capitals as if it was a terrible thing that he allowed to happen. It really wasn't. That makes be think that you're prone to over reaction maybe? Maybe you were a bit OTT in your response to him? You had to question DD1 and then ring him back to question him, over what sounds quite a minor issue. I don't know much about caravans, but I can't imagine that a caravan site would allow dangerous wires to be out in the open, they must be sectioned off in some way?

I'm surprised that your DD felt the need to tell you at all. Did you instruct her to report any health and safety failings before she went? It seems an odd thing for her to tell you in a 1 min conversation. Not we had an ice cream/played on the beach/had chips for tea, but DD2 stood near the generator thing?! It doesn't quite add up.

Finola1step Wed 06-Aug-14 13:13:57

Ok. Let me get this straight. Your dc are on holiday with their father and other adults. Does he have parental responsibility?

There are enough adults to supervise. They are your dc's family. Yes, there are big issues to discuss esp change of location. But if he has PR then he is under no obligation to discuss with you what his plans are just as you are not obliged to him.

The back of the caravan incident is worrying but at this point in time, there is nothing you can do. Talk it through with your dc when they return. If you have reasonable concerns regarding their immediate welfare and safety, then you should call the police. Are they in immediate danger? Or are they in a situation that you wouldn't choose for them?

Does your ex have court ordered contact or is it a more informal arrangement? Sorry for all the questions and for coming across quite harsh, but I do wonder if at the heart of this is a lack of clarity and communication over expectations.

4littleones Wed 06-Aug-14 13:54:54

where did I say I questioned my DD or phoned him back to question him? she brought it up. I haven't phoned him once on the entire holiday - he phoned me.

my issues are the lies and that makes me wonder why they are lying.

it wasn't a change of venue. he told me the incorrect information on purpose, it being in a totally different area.

and like I have said twice, I wasnt massively concerned over the insident, I was pissed off that my 6 year old has been told to keep stuff from me and then been blamed by her Dad in front of her. and I could hear that she was upset.

maybe im not explaining things very well

Mumof3xox Wed 06-Aug-14 14:47:44

Op I think if posters have not seen your previous threads with concerns over exp and childrens safety they might think you are being over the top

OutragedFromLeeds Wed 06-Aug-14 16:14:03

Sorry, you messaged him, not phoned. When they phoned you there was 'lots of probing'.

You must have questioned your DD, otherwise you wouldn't know she was too scared to talk about it and she wouldn't have had to say 'forget about it' or 'lets pretend I didn't say anything'. If your DD said that you must have continued asking her about it after you heard her Dad tell her not to say anything.

OutragedFromLeeds Wed 06-Aug-14 16:17:40

I don't know any back story btw so I'm basing this only on what you've said here.

4littleones Wed 06-Aug-14 17:01:01

I will link the the previous thread when im home and on the laptop. smile

kiki0202 Wed 06-Aug-14 17:39:57

It's unacceptable for him to lie about where your children are.

It's unacceptable to tell your daughter to lie and to call her a liar.

I think a 5 year old should be allowed to play out without supervision but they should tell you of any incidents.

Don't let them go again. If you are seriously worried go get them.

4littleones Wed 06-Aug-14 23:30:22

my last thread on the subject

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