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10 week old worse not better, advice please.

(51 Posts)
Ginnytonic82 Tue 31-Dec-13 17:22:53

Hi I'm afraid this is a long one but I've no idea where to turn for some advice. I've posted before about my baby Ds and his chronic wind. As stated in that thread we have tried everything from colief to massage to anti colic bottles to infant gaviscon.

Two weeks ago and somewhat miraculously Ds seemed to really settle down. The wind wasn't troubling him, his colic seemed to pass. It was a massive relief. However 5 days ago Ds began crying constantly for food. He went from 4oz every 3 hours to wanting 5oz every 1 and a half to 2 hours. Wasn't too concerned as I assumed it was a growth spurt. Following that (sorry for tmi) he had 5 dirty nappies. He had been slightly constipated due to infant gaviscon and was taking lactulose. The nappies all had different consistency and were a very pale yellow. Since then he has been constantly breaking wind and squirming in discomfort. His feeds have become totally erratic, he's taking 2oz then refusing, then screaming and draining 4oz and bringing it back up. He has also continued to poo several times a day and they are still much paler than they used to be. He saw the dr yesterday, who just said he's fine.

Is this possibly colic round two? Could it be something else? We had reflux and lactose intolerance ruled out. Has anyone been through similar with their Dc? I have pnd and felt there was light at the end of the tunnel, but now I've crashed back down as he seems even worse! If anyone has any advice it would be extremely gratefully received. I hate seeing poor Ds like this.

Ginnytonic82 Wed 01-Jan-14 15:51:17

Can't stop saying thank you as I'm so grateful truly. ancient thank you for that. I do feel like I need to say something to the dr about pnd but don't feel I can. My HV did the questionnaire with me and she said I had high anxiety but last time she came I was having a good day - Ds was better and my Dh was off work for Christmas and he is an enormous help when he isn't working. How could I bring it up and if I do what will happen? I don't want anything to happen to Ds x

BotBotticelli Wed 01-Jan-14 20:08:54

Nothing will happen to your DS if you tell your GP or health visitor you feel depressed: they will be pleased you have sought help for a common and very treatable condition. You will probably be offered either a low dose anti depressant or anti anxiety drug, and hopefully some counselling too. I felt the same as you when my DS was newborn and I for some CBT counselling on the NHS, referred through t HV and it really helped.

Onto your DS: my DS was an absolute horror as a newborn: screaming loads, erratic feeding, colic symptoms aplenty. I think in retrospect he might have had silent reflux but we never got that treated.

What helped us was comfort milk and ultimately he grew out of it by 3.5 months.

Trust your instincts and push for a referral to rule out intolerances but bear in mind that some babies are just a fucking nightmare a real challenge as newborns.

With my DS is was definitely just a phase that he grew out of really suddenly before he turned 4mo. By then then damage was done though and I had bad PND and anxiety so you really have my sympathy.

The good news is, my DS has just turned 1 and he is a delightful inquisitive little monkey who runs rings around me all day laughing his head off and who sleeps 12 hours per night like a dream.

I never would have believed this was possible at 10 weeks old which was a real low point for us (and I believe and known peak week for crying).

WhenSheWasBadSheWasExhausted Wed 01-Jan-14 23:30:48

Don't have much to say but just wanted to offer a bit if support. You are not a shit mum, it's normal to feel like this for a while and it does get better (loads better)

Hope you get some answers from the gp, very best of luck.

Ginnytonic82 Thu 02-Jan-14 10:16:50

Thank you. I will keep pestering them for Ds. I get a bit disheartened as when we were last there I saw on the notes on the drs computer it says "ANXIOUS MOTHER" and feel they take one look at that and dismiss me. I am anxious, I want Ds to be happy and comfortable and he isn't! Last night he was waking constantly with the grunting and straining again but didn't have a dirty nappy til 9 am. Even after that he carried on. The grunting eventually becomes high pitched crying, which started today at about ten past five and finished about ten minutes ago - with a 20 min break for feeding.

I know I also need help for pnd and I'm going to try and summon my courage to say something on Tuesday when we are back at the GP.

ancientbuchanan Thu 02-Jan-14 20:03:40

Well done. It's a hard one. But I so wish I had done it sooner.

Ginnytonic82 Fri 03-Jan-14 09:53:29

Just to update, poor Ds has now developed a pattern of sleeping for a maximum of 20 mins then he grunts and strains and wakes up crying. He is also drooling lots which seems to make him cough and rasp. This is the 5th night we've had pretty much no sleep. Poor Dh came home from work took Ds sent me to bed. Looked after screaming Ds all night until he fell asleep in his arms, brought him to bed, put Ds in his cot. Ds grunts and wakes up! I made Dh go and sleep downstairs for some peace. My mum came yesterday and in desperation we tried Ds with soya milk to see if it made any difference - it didn't but we are running out of things to try.
We also ordered a swing as Ds is only not crying when he is moving. I have called my hv she's going to visit this afternoon. Poor baby is so tired but his body refuses to let him sleep.

Gileswithachainsaw Fri 03-Jan-14 10:35:46

If he is CMPI (which is a poss) 40% are also soya intolerant too. sad

Ginnytonic82 Fri 03-Jan-14 15:51:42

My HV has just been and she has phoned my GP surgery to insist we are both seen today. She wants them to try other treatments for reflux and also try fully hypoallergenic milk. She said they might not help but she wants to see and also get him seen by a paediatricians team. I am going to be put on ad's - I'm a bit apprehensive but I am at breaking point and I desperately need something. Thanks again for everyone's lovely comments, advice and personal experiences. I am going to try coming back to this thread and update in case someone else has a similar experience with their dc.

Gileswithachainsaw Fri 03-Jan-14 15:53:03

smile that's fab!! What a lovely HV!!

I hope the milk helps I really really do. X

Tiredemma Fri 03-Jan-14 16:01:34

Ginny- please come back and let us know how your DS is getting on (and you!)

Fingers crossed you get some answers-

best wishes

MissRatty Fri 03-Jan-14 16:07:40

Please don't think you are a bad mum! We've had a few issues with our windy/colicky/refluxy little one and have just kept pestering the GP until we are on a regime that fingers crossed (only been a few days) but seems to be treating us all better. You're health is just as important, so stress to your Gp how desperate it is making you feel and they will have to take action.

Its really difficult to get perspective when you have a crying baby in discomfort, I know just how you feel.

MarlenaGru Fri 03-Jan-14 16:16:06

Good news they are taking you seriously! I was ebf but baby was similar. Eventually after 2 years of no sleep and going to a private paediatric gastroenterologist we got her diagnosed with a cmpa and she was put on omeprazole for reflux. Gaviscon made her constipated and was useless. The pooing thing would be a huge allergy\intollerance flag in my mind.

ancientbuchanan Fri 03-Jan-14 18:59:50

Really pleased your HV recognizes the issue now.

You see, your instinct was right, proof you are a sensible mum. We all knew it, now you have external confirmation.

Ginnytonic82 Fri 03-Jan-14 21:56:18

Thank you. Update so far, GP wants Ds to give infant gaviscon another go but has referred us to paediatrician and is going to ask for a priority appiontment as the distress for us is so bad. She emailed them as I was with her and I am going on Monday to pick up the paperwork. She was reluctant to prescribe anything else until the paediatrician has seen him, as Ds is so young. She has put me on ads and explained that they may take a while to work but I'm free to go in and see her whenever I need too. Also my hv (who is great) is going to ring me and call in to see me. My mum, Dh and my sister have been unbelievably supportive so even though as yet, there isn't much in the way of improvement I do feel better. Thanks for giving me the encouragement to speak up.

princesspants Sun 05-Jan-14 20:11:48

ginnytonic Please google Reflux disease.
All 3 of mine had it and it sounds just like how I was with my first. GP's are so dismissive of it. I think they think colic and reflux are one in the same. Reflux makes for one very unhappy baby. Gaviscon does not cut it. Omeprazole works much better and only needs given once a day. My 3 were on it for the first year of their lives.
GERD or GORD is when the part of the stomach (muscle) which opens to let food in then closes after doesn't close properly and everything comes back up including the stomach acid which burns the esophagus. Very painful and can leave scarring when left untreated. Lots of babies with GERD aren't actually sick (silent reflux). It's comes up and back don without actually reaching the mouth.
Smell his breath - is it adicy?
Does he squirm and pull away from his feed?
Does the painful screaming go on for hours?
Can you lie him flat or does this distress him immensely?

Don't be palmed off with - he is not sick enough or his weight is fine.
In a lot of GERD cases this is not an indicator.
My first was under weight and unable to feed, my second wouldn't stop feeding until she was fit to burst and this was on breast milk. She went from a 6lb baby to an absolute summo in 7 weeks. Breast milk is an natural antacid relief so she was getting relief but making it worse over feeding.
My third fed but on/off/on/off/on/off constantly screaming windy as hell. Couldn't get wind up enough - this went on even with medication until he was 8 months (worst of the 3)!

Now, your baby may not have it but look it up, be aware and watch out for symptoms getting worse and worse. If he settles at 12 weeks he is fine if he doesn't he most definitely has GERD and you most definitely want Omeprazole no Gaviscon or renitidine as the other two need to be taken with each feed and Omeprazole is the more expensive one the GP doesn't want you to have wink.
I found not leaving the GP's room, crying constantly and mentioning omeprazole a couple of dozen times works wonders!!

You are not a bad mum. You have a miserable baby because his little digestion system is not coping because it's immature.
This might just be colic or it might be GERD but it is nothing you have done and it won't last I so very promise!!
I would not have had 3 if the early months were anything to go by. They are hell if your baby is unsettled and you shouldn't be "enjoying every minute", you are allowed to be absolutely distraught with exhaustion and exasperation it means you are normal.
He will settle by hook or crook and you will be able to enjoy your baby eventually. It just takes longer if your baby is struggling to settle.

Good luck x

princesspants Sun 05-Jan-14 20:21:38

OOps just x posted with you.

My second two went onto Omeprazole at 7 weeks and 5 weeks so don't worry. Your GP is just being lame!

Look up GERD just now though.

Prop his crib/basket up with loads of books at one end
Don't put him down for at least 20 mins after a feed.
Wear a sling if you can.
Sleep him on his tummy during the day if you can watch him.
I had a monitor attached to a sensor pad that showed their every breath with a flashing light and an alarm would go off if they were to stop breathing at night. I felt confident enough to sleep the second two on their tummies for this reason but I know you are a first time mum. This might be too scary for you.

Please other Mners don't jump in with SIDS. You have no idea What it is like to have a baby with genuine GERD and how distressed they are.

If it helps 97% of SIDS happen in homes with smokers according to the Pediatricians I spoke to. You should ask the consultant about this OP. I wouldn't have survived if mine hadn't have slept on their tummies. It relieves babies with GERD alot.

Even if your DP/DH/mum/friend could watch him sleep in a proped up basket on his tummy this evening to give you a longer sleep??

princesspants Sun 05-Jan-14 20:28:26

Argghh ginny I have so not read your other posts properly.

Don't jump the gun with ad's. Once you are on them you stay on them for at least6-9 months. You may not be depressed. Can you let the GP know how you feel and let them give you 3/4 weeks until this is all sorted out?

I don't dismiss anti depressants or indeed PND but I know how BAD reflux is and it can seem like you are depressed. Roll on a few weeks of your baby on proper meds and you will not believe how different life will be.

Don't confuse the two.

Do you feel utterley useless. Exhausted beyond anything you have ever imagined? Do you cry most of the day and night? Do you feel like running away sometimes? Do you wonder what you have done in having him sometimes even if briefly?
Are you hating every second of being a mum? Could you literally throw him when he screams for hours and hours and hours.

You could be depressed, then again you could have a baby with reflux! It's much the same but your baby can be cured alot quicker and easier than you iyswim.

princesspants Sun 05-Jan-14 20:58:23

There's more!! I Know!

Im not nuts! Im just passionate that no mum has to go through what I have been through longer than they have to.

One more tip but it is THE MOST IMPORTANT.




YOU ARE CREATING AN ACID MINEFIELD BY FEEDING ONE ON TOP OF THE OTHER AND IF HE HAS JUST BEEN SICK, THERE A LOT OF ACID KICKING AROUND. He will be fine for 2 hours if he has just been sick. The screaming is from the pain of being sick as the stomach acid all comes up too. Another feed too soon will double the pain right after.

We used to walk the floor (my floor has dents in it) with all 3 to space these feeds out. It is sooooo important. The difference in the screaming is remarkable if you can spread the feeds and they get used to less food.

Again, unless your baby has had actual reflux - please do not comment. Your baby was fine. This is a baby with reflux.

Sorry OP, you have no idea how much the breast feeding/feed on demand Natzi's have to say on the subject they know nothing about.

Im just getting in there before they do lol!

ancientbuchanan Sun 05-Jan-14 21:10:46

Princess, I wish I had known that. You have just described my screaming baby to me. 6 months of hell, not bonding, being told it was normal, that it was colic, that I was a pushy mother with munchausen syndrome. Ginny, sorry, don't want to derail, but the EB F DD is an identikit picture of Ds.

Ginny, well done. They are taking you seriously and great that you have support in RL. Keep us posted.

Ginnytonic82 Tue 07-Jan-14 18:02:07

Thanks again, it's so good talking to other mums who have experienced this. So far the infant gaviscon is making a slight difference, Ds does seem more comfortable and is not bringing as much up. But he still has 2 bottles where we can't give him gaviscon - so are these defeating the object? Good news paediatrician team will be contacting me this week with an appointment. He is still very windy and has a few moments especially during the night. He also seems to only want to sleep on me - I understand he needs the comforting feeling but I don't want to encourage this permanently - anyone any words of wisdom? We prop his mattress up to no avail. Ads are ok - I know they won't kick in for a while so we'll see.

5HundredUsernamesLater Tue 07-Jan-14 19:09:31

Excellent advice! Very similar to my experiences. Gaviscon did nothing for my daughter but Omeprazole was a wonder drug.

Are you still using lactulose? My daughter was prescribed that for constipation when she was about 4yrs and it gave her an uncomfortable bloated tummy and lots of wind but didn't help her constipation very much. We now use movicol which is fab but I'm not sure wether it is suitable for young babies. If not it might be worth seeing if there is another alternative to lactulose though. Good luck. Hope things improve soon.

Ginnytonic82 Tue 07-Jan-14 19:59:49

5hundred I've have stopped using it as I wondered if it might be contributing to his wind/general discomfort, he does seem more comfortable but I'm a bit concerned over what to do should Ds get constipated from the gaviscon? He hasn't so far and is still managing to go 2/3 times a day - which is actually more than he used to.

5HundredUsernamesLater Tue 07-Jan-14 21:16:38

It might be worth asking about some Movicol when you next see a doctor if he's going to be on the Gaviscon for long just in case. We keep some in all the time and use when required.It always has good results and doesn't seem to cause any other problems.
Hope you are all feeling better tonight.

ancientbuchanan Wed 08-Jan-14 09:39:46

Ginny, there was a good

ScaredToBeHonest Wed 08-Jan-14 22:29:38

Gaviscon did nothing for my DS and the GP was telling me that paeds wouldn't do anything as he was feeding and gaining weight. I told them my concerns weren't just about his weight but that he was in pain - thankfully my HV had seen DS and said he was in pain so I just kept repeating this. GP said he couldn't prescribe anything else but reluctantly referred to paediatrician (because I insisted).

The appointment wasn't for a month and DS was awful. The HV suggested taking him to A&E if he was bad again. We did and they gave him omeprazole. I found out that the GP could have prescribed it angry

Omeprazole has made much a difference to DS. Gone is the baby who is never happy and screams all the time or is grumpy the rest of it and in his place we have a smiley happy baby!! He isn't perfect and I think the dosage needs increasing (GP wouldn't authorise this! Grrrrr) but he has the paeds appointment next week so fingers crossed they will increase this.

I am now enjoying being a Mum instead of hating it. My husband no longer comes home from work to a screaming baby and a wife in tears. I have been on anti depressants (mild PND) for 4 weeks (just before DS went on omeprazole) and I feel loads better. I don't know whether it is because of the anti depressants or because DS is no longer crying for most of the day!

I hope you get some joy at the paediatrician appointment Ginny flowers

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