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(21 Posts)
Natmu Fri 28-Sep-12 05:01:39

Ds2 is nearly 4 weeks and was starting to settle himself into a routine. He is ebf and I have been feeding on demand roughly every 2 hours. In between feeds he has been snatching cat naps of about 20 mins each time and pretty much just screaming the rest of the time.

I rejoiced the other day because he showed signs of spacing out feeds to every 3 hours and seemed much calmer, was sleeping for longer etc.

However over past 24 hours he has gone back to square 1 or even worse. He is absolutely screaming between feeds, refusing to be put down, not feeding properly (when he latches on he either falls asleep immediately as he's so tired or constantly pulls away).

I feel like I'm losing my marbles and am worried because I had pnd with my ds1 and don't want to go there again. Do you think this is just a passing phase or should I go the bottle route to make sure he's full up and satisfied? He just seems so unpredictable and I don't know what to do to make him happy. Please help.

ZuleikaD Fri 28-Sep-12 07:23:01

My own inclination would be to pop a boob in every time he yells - don't try and stretch out the feeds if he doesn't want to (and it doesn't sound as if he does). It's still very early days to be stretching out feeds and some babies never get to 3 hours. He may be doing a growth spurt and need more at the moment and be trying to get your supply up. The screaming may also be giving him wind which could then be causing pain when he tries to feed - I would pop him in a sling and carry him around as babies find it very soothing, and feed him whenever he gets restless. My own DS was feeding about every 90 minutes at 4 weeks.

JiltedJohnsJulie Fri 28-Sep-12 14:59:36

Just posted on your other thread. Hope your day is going a bit better today Natmu.

I asked if DS has been checked for Tongue Tie, have you had your latch checked too? Is there a baby support group you can go too?

Have a look at Dr Jack Newman's video on latch and have you or DH tried the Happiest Baby on the Block technique for the crying?

JiltedJohnsJulie Fri 28-Sep-12 15:03:45

and agree with Zule don't try to space out feeds yet, that will happen all by itself. Have a read of Breastfeeding your newborn, what to expect in the early weeks.

Keep an eye on yourself too. Accept offers of help, try to eat well (I know it can be really hard) and have a look at the APNI website. If you think you are slipping, I'd go and ask for CBT.


Natmu Sat 29-Sep-12 00:56:09

Thank you for your advice and sorry for being a newbie and posting 2 threads by mistake blush. I was just assuming all was ok with latch and tt etc but will go and see bfc next week.

JiltedJohnsJulie Sat 29-Sep-12 20:25:30

Don't worry about posting twice at all, you've got a new baby and are sleep deprived. Give yourself a break, can't do emoticons at the mo but that was said with a smile.

How are things today?

Natmu Sun 30-Sep-12 02:19:52

You are very perceptive Jilted. I'm very bad at giving myself a break. Am currently tearing my hair out because Ds2 is now feeding for 5 mins and passing out then waking an hour later for more. This was the pattern all last night and we seem to be doing the same so far tonight. He stimulates the let down then chokes and pulls off and falls asleep. I could cry with frustration. I'm so tired I feel like a zombie. I just cannot keep this up.

Everyone said the second dc is so much easier so I'm now feeling a complete failure for finding it all so much harder. People are asking me out for coffee and lunch and stuff and I just keep saying no because he's so unsettled and stressed and I feel like people are thinking 'oh she should be in a routine by now'.

My eldest dsd has a 5 month old baby and has taken to motherhood like it's second nature despite being only 21 and I know I shouldn't but I can't help but compare myself who should be the veteran at the ripe old age of 34 and with previous experience. I look like a train wreck, I have massive guilt about the lack of time I'm spending with ds1. I just feel like this should be getting easier by now but every day is the same. Dh is getting stressed too which doesn't help because I always feel like it's my fault.

Sorry for extensive moaning. sad

JiltedJohnsJulie Sun 30-Sep-12 10:38:43

Sorry for extensive moaning. You are not moaning. It sounds like LO is having issues with feeding and you are a new Mum who is sleep deprived. In many cultures you'd still be tucked up in bed with your family doing all the housework and looking after DH and DC1. There is a lot of pressure on Mums to be up and out straightaway. Babies and Mums need time to adjust and if that means staying at home for a few weeks then that is fine. Your friends will understand and if they really want to see you they can come around with lunch smile.

Ds2 is now feeding for 5 mins and passing out then waking an hour later for more. This was the pattern all last night and we seem to be doing the same so far tonight. He stimulates the let down then chokes and pulls off and falls asleep. I'm not trained and think that you need to speak to a BFC as soon as possible. Try NCT on 0300 330 0700 or LLL on 0845 120 2918, you can find the number of any local LLL Leaders here and a list of local Bfing Support Groups here. Have you got him in bed with you? Do you think you would sleep better?

I'm glad that DSD has taken to motherhood so well, but please don't compare yourself to other mothers. DS2 obviously has some feeding issue which is as yet unrsolved. You simply don't know how other mothers would cope with that, I think you have done an amazing job to get to 5 weeks.

You also can't read minds. Often the mothers who appear to be coping the best are the one who are suffering the most. I know that reading is probably the last thing you feel like at the moment but I think you might like this book.

Dh is getting stressed too which doesn't help because I always feel like it's my fault. Why is DH getting stressed? Think you might need to have a chat, afterall you don't want extra guilt on top of what you are already feeling.

Give one of the helplines a call and let us know how you get on smile.

JiltedJohnsJulie Sun 30-Sep-12 12:05:41

Sorry really need to be more concise! How about asking DH to look after the DC, get a box of tissues and go and phone one of the Helplines.

Then ask DH to get lunch and then all snuggle up on the sofa with a good film, or beter still you and DS2 go to bed for the afternoon?

JiltedJohnsJulie Sun 30-Sep-12 12:07:32

Oh and if you hang around MN for long enough you will see plenty of threads where Mums have had no feeding issues and then are struggling with No 2, or No 3, No 4 or even No 5.

This is not your fault and you aren't he only one, all babies are different and come with own peculiar challenges.

OddFrog Sun 30-Sep-12 12:36:34

Just thought I'd chip-in. My DS was ebf and screamed, fed 5 mins and pulled away, couldn't put him down, was so tired he couldn't feed, etc. Sounds very similar to what you've said. I was exhausted and couldn't think straight to work out what to do! It turned out he had silent reflux - so the acid/indigestion burned all the way up and then all the way down and we had no idea at all as he wasn't spitting up or vomiting. Just screaming.

He liked to be upright after feeds, cot propped up at the head end, slept in a sling to be upright (and seemed to enjoy the warmth and movement). We tried to feed in upright positions, so I'd sit him astride on leg and face him to the boob. It was a bit unnatural, but he fed longer and better, then slept longer smile. I also had to watch what I ate as dairy in my system made him worse.

What you said about wind might be important too. With reflux, some babies don't tolerate being patted or rubbed to bring up wind. I think we settled on gentle rubbing only and no patting. It helped quite a bit. No idea why - maybe the support groups Jilted mentioned will know.

In the end we were advised to give him a dummy after feeds to keep him swallowing and although I was reluctant (former dummy-hater) I helped so much and we all finally got a good sleep. I hope you can find a way that works for you. Good Luck.

Natmu Mon 01-Oct-12 00:25:56

Thank you so much for such kind words and helpful advice.

The day I came home from hospital a local bfc phoned to ask how I was getting on. I felt quite confident at that point but she was very negative in her manner and kept telling me I must be doing it wrong because I had flattened nipples after ds2 had been feeding which really knocked my confidence. I think this is why I've been reluctant to go and see her but I will give one of the helpline numbers a call in the morning. Thank you f

Natmu Mon 01-Oct-12 00:42:42

Thank you for the contacts.

DH is stressed because he is trying to do too much. He's panicking about housework and cooking and entertaining DS1. I've tried to tell him to ease up and forget about cleaning bathrooms etc but he has slight OCD tendencies which make it hard for him to ignore that stuff. He also wants to help with feeding but can't and although he hasn't admitted it I think he feels a bit left out because of the closeness I have with LO through bf.

Anyway, we've had a much better day today so fingers crossed it continues. I've been trying the upright feeding and keeping him up for a while after he's finished and it seems to be making quite a bit of difference. Thanks Oddfrog. When you said you avoided dairy did you have to cut it out completely? Like, no milk in tea or just avoid the major things?

JiltedJohnsJulie Mon 01-Oct-12 18:46:04

Don't think that DH has to feed DS2 to get some closeness, how about looking after him while you have a bath, wearing him in a sling, or bathing him? My DH used to do the baths and nappy changes, which was a big help. If he is stressing about the housework, could you get a cleaner for a few weeks?

I would post in the breast & bottle section with the symptoms you have said already like the flattened nipples, the pulling off, screaming and frequency of feeds. You might get some expert help there.

Although I am untrained, I think it might be tongue tie and it would be interesting to see what others think. Have a look here and see what you think. Milk Matters also do a virtual diagnosis service.

I'm sorry to hear that the BFC knocked your confidence. You don't have to see the same one if you need help, try one of the helplines or your local La Leche League Leader, they may be more supportive.

As for the dairy, I've got friends who've cut out dairy but its a huge faff and they've only done it on medical advice. If you think it may be an intolerance then I recommend going to the GP and getting LO tested. If it is dairy intolerance, all the major supermarkets have lists, available at customer services, of the dairy free foods they sell.

Personally though I wouldn't be looking at cutting things out of my diet unless I'd spoken to a BFC first to see what they say.

Natmu Tue 02-Oct-12 03:36:34

I think you may be right about the tongue tie! I've just read the list of symptoms on the link you sent and he ticks nearly all the boxes. Looking at his tongue again I'm also sure it has that heart shaped appearance at the end. Who do you think I should I see about it?

JiltedJohnsJulie Tue 02-Oct-12 19:31:18

Not sure if I am the best person to advise on TT as I think my DS had undiagnosed TT and upper Lip Tie but here goes smile.

Milk Matters (in the link you read) do a TT diagnosis service, or post a thread in Breast & Bottle feeding to see if you can get any support or information there, hopefully that will be enough to help smile

Hopeforever Tue 02-Oct-12 19:37:40

Would you consider cranial osteopathy?

DS was like this, not feeding for long, not sleeping for long. After his treatment he was a changed baby.

Also agree with others who say feed more often and share your bed if you can.

But most importantly give yourself a break. You are doing so well 4 weeks in.

JiltedJohnsJulie Tue 02-Oct-12 19:40:15

Cranianl Osteopathy may help but I think OP needs to see a BFC or Lactation Consultant as soon as possible, it sounds very much like TT.

OddFrog Tue 02-Oct-12 23:00:08

With the dairy, I just cut right back on the obvious stuff - I'm a real cheese fiend! A friend of mine had to go all-out nothing from a cow in any way, or suffer all-night screaming. So I suppose it depends on the baby, really. But do get medical advice before you go down that route, a balanced diet is the way to go and you need your calories and calcium when bfing.

Your HV might be a good place to start re TT. DS had minor TT which was easily resolved with a quick snip at about 3 weeks, he didn't even notice it being done.

Glad you had a better day. At 4 weeks it can be hard going when everyone's tired. The family dynamic will settle into it's next phase soon too. At the moment, maybe your DH can bond more closely with your eldest while he has the opportunity? When baby is sleeping and feeding less, he'll have his turn too and you can refocus on your big boy. (Let me know how you manage with that - I'm due DC2 in Dec and wonder how we'll cope with the change!)

JiltedJohnsJulie Wed 03-Oct-12 10:05:25

Congratulations Odd on your PG and glad to hear that you got TT sorted out with minimum of fuss last time.

Thought you might like this article and a sling which is easy to use is your friend smile, have a look and see if there is a Sling Meet near to you smile.

OddFrog Thu 04-Oct-12 09:10:21

Thanks Jilted. That's a really helpful blog, I'll be soaking up the ideas! I do Like a sling too! Used them lots when DS was born and until I couldn't carry him comfortably. Definitely the way to go.

How are you doing Natmu? Things any calmer today?

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