PND and dark thoughts.anyone else admit such things?

[brokensleeper]

i think i have some pnd and pts from very traumatic birth experience where i almost died.im getting some counselling at the moment but recently ive been having these very disturbing flashes,or thoughts to do with my baby.
Firstly i want to say that there is no way i would allow myself or my baby to come to any harm.just the thought of my baby getting hurt in any way makes me feel sick? But why am i having these thoughts????
Please dont judge me...im just freaked out by it.
Thoughts like...i could snap her neck so easily....stop her breathing...oh this looks horrific reading it and upsetting me. I dont want these horrid things in my head.
I dare not mention to anyone in case they think m a danger somehow.
My world is my baby right now but im also under a lot of physocal&emotional stress in my life.im not handling it very well.
Has anyone else had such dark thoughts?

[fortyplus]

Yes - and mine are happy, healthy, loving 16 and 17 year olds I could really see things happening to them and sometimes it was me doing it. I think it stems from fear of anything happening to them - and of course the worst nightmare would be to be responsible for any harm - whether intentional or not. Luckily I have friend who's a health visitor so I could chat to her about it and she reassured me that it's not that unusual - people just won't admit it.

Do continue getting help with your PND, though - I didn't have that to contend with.

[Orbinator]

Hey, I'm pg at the mo and overdue. Worried about PND as am single and live alone and have had depression before. Have already spoken briefly to the MW's and asked them to keep an eye on me; i'd rather have help than nothing at all but it is scary. I worry that I just won't be able to cope alone.

A friend of mine was brutally honest and said she had thoughts of suffocating her DD and also thoughts of throwing her out of the window. Both times she obviously didn't act on it. She was trying to make everyone aware that these things do cross mother's minds - good ones just as much. It's just no one will admit or talk about it openly.

So although I've not got to where you are yet, I thought i'd share my fears and advice I've had. Hope it helps. There are some support groups around too. This one has a free helpline:

www.pndsupport.co.uk/

[Orbinator]

I imagine a lot of it is hormonal response as we are their most ardent protectors so nature makes us ultra aware of their fragility.

[Yourefired]

Congratulations on your baby. Yes when my 2 DDs were newborns I had horrible invasive images, especially with the first, but it passed.

[brokensleeper]

thanks.strangely reassuring to think mothers do have such thoughts.orbinator- you have aummed it up in a rational way in your last posting.thanks. I hope you keep getting as much support as possible and able to talk openly about your feelings and experiences.
Im 6mths into motherhood& struggling,but also having such amazing moments with my baby. But still should i tell my cousellor about these thoughts?what if they think im losing it& danger to my child???

[fortyplus]

I think if you were to explain that you're disturbed by thoughts that flash into your head and putting it down to being so anxious that any harm might befall your baby then your counsellor will explain things in a rational way.

[Merlion]

Be honest with your counsellor they will have heard it before. If you don't then they can't help you to work through it. Are you on any ad's do you think that would help? I suffered badly from pnd after ds and was scared it would return after dd(now 8 weeks) but it hasn't and I think partly because the counseling I received helped me to deal with the negative feelings I was experiencing. I hope you start feeling better very soon and be kind to yourself. It's a huge change and can affect us in many different ways. I was lucky and had good birth experiences both times too so didn't have to deal with that as well which can't be much fun for you.

[Emzar]

I think intrusive images, as yourefired puts it, describes what I've experienced very well - horrible vivid images of things that could happen to my baby or that I could do, often the same images again and again. My theory is that it's a coping mechanism in the brain, a way of calibrating the fact you're completely responsible for this tiny fragile person. I reckon it's similar to the feeling many people get when they're standing on the edge if a high drop, the urge to jump off. I read a theory recently that this was a survival mechanism to keep us from doing these hings by playing a "worst case scenario" in our heads. It's an intrusive image only, we don't act on it.

[travispickles]

Oh yes. Kept thinking her head was like an egg and I would drop her and it would break open. Also the window one. Weird isn't it?

[fortyplus]

I was once hanging pictures and had a very clear image in my head of splatting ds2's head with the hammer - but of course the instant it popped into my head I was horrified - it doesn't mean I would've carried out the act. Far from it - I would've fought like a tiger to save them from harm. Still would, actually - even though they're about 6 feet tall now!

[brokensleeper]

yes thanks for being so open about this.i thought i was going to look like a pyscho. Im not on any ads.dont want any meds.but i can see the theories for why we would think like this.on the other hand if i verbalised the things i had,the horrioble violent bloody images to my freinds,im sure they would be extremly worried for me and my baby even though i am not obviously going to act onn such thoughts! I have a HV coming next week.i want to say something but truly...im still scared to say in case she thinks im a pshycho or something.
I dont need to prove how much i love with every part of me,my little miracle. I just hate these nasty images that make me feel physically sick sometimes and then i also feel like im a shit mother too. :(

[mybrainsthinkingfuckyou]

You're not a shit mum and it's not that unusual. I imagined my DD falling over balcony into river in a cafe on Saturday - actually jolly good thing too as I did have her pulling up on the table (wasn't doing a Michael Jackson with Blanket over the balcony but...) so I moved position so it was less of a Save your life scenario.

I have also thought when moving her to me My God did I hurt her neck then and she is a big bruiser of a baby. But when she is screaming her head off I have understood why women think about throwing their babies out the window.

Goes without saying I would not harm her in any way and sometimes a horrible worst case scenario might occur to me but that has no bearing on my parenting - i love her to bits.

I think if you had any morbid thoughts verging on psychosis it would have been in the first week after and you would not be able to coherently express them on here. More it is your worst fears coming out in awareness of how little she is.

If it is ever more than that i.e. i could stop you incessantly crying in a few seconds by... then you need to put her down and walk away for a cuppa or ring Cry-sis. But don't think that's the issue.

Personally I'd mention it to family/friends/therapist but not sure I'd mention it to hv in how you've described it here unless she knows you really well as you don't want her to misconstrue and have you down as having dark thoughts per se.

[mybrainsthinkingfuckyou]

P.S. you continue not to be a shit mum. Night xxx

[Nihilisticbunny]

Oh god yes I had this when I had bad PND, mostly it was circular thoughts about a virus, but I had persistent intrusive thoughts about bashing my babies head against the corner of the table. It was just that, intrusive thoughts, I would never have done it in a million years, but it constantly popped up in my head. PNI/PND is a bloody horrible illness.

I have depression atm but it is nothing compared to the PNI I suffered after my second child. That was frigging horrible, I honestly thought I was going insane, I was very irrational and panicky looking back. Worst time of my life.

[Nihilisticbunny]

Oh please consider meds brokensleeper, you don't need to suffer like this, even talking to your Dr and being prescribed the meds helps, I ended up on dosulepin which is an old fashioned med, it sorted me out well. I slept well and felt slightly drowsy but it really really helped.

[cottonreels]

I dont think i ever had pnd, but have had thoughts like these. Eg, imagine if I just fell down staits and dropped her, or, walking into her bedroom in the morning - imagine if she was dead etc etc. I think youre just rehearsing worst case scenario as you adjust to your new life together. My dd is 21 months now and it doesnt happen so often as in the newborn days. Don't feel bad about it. Its probably just an anxiety type symptom that your brain is trying to manage for you.
Sorry about your bad birth experience.

[CharlieBoo]

I'm so pleased I found this thread... I am a good few years into my first bout of pnd, my youngest is 2 now and I have been having these awful dark thoughts too.... I feel awful, I mean my kids are my world, I am so far removed from doing any of this, it sickens me, but why are the thoughts in my head? I don't feel I can talk to anyone as they will think I'm a maniac so this is making it worse.... Please can we talk here and support each other... Thanks c

[ShushBaby]

I have had intrusive thoughts both about what might happen to dd and what I could theoretically do to her. These thoughts were/are unbidden, unwanted and disturbing. And I have never had PND. So I think what you are experiencing is completely normal.

Certainly when I suffered from depression in the past, I experienced truly hideous invasive thoughts and fears about myself and whether I was 'evil' (really, really horrible stuff, to the point where I sort of believed that I WAS the 'bad person' I feared I could be). Once the depression lifted I could see that I absolutely am not that person- in fact I feel I am a better person now for having 'been there' and akcnowledged the dark places that any human being has the potential to go to.

It's good to talk about these things, but so hard to. You are very brave OP. Good luck.

[dribbleface]

i had these thought with DS too, but had forgotten until you said. I think it was on here but someone suggested 'shutting the images down' a bit like a computer screen, so i would actually visualise a red cross in the corner and close it down (sounds weird i know). It really helped.

[Junebugjr]

Luckily my friends and I all discuss this regularly, so I was expecting these thoughts after dd1, but can see how it could be really disturbing if you didn't expect it.

One of my friends had the recurring thought of her baby in the microwave, so one night she unplugged it and threw it in the trash, just 'incase' her baby made his way from his cot to the kitchen, he couldn't actually move at the time! I think it's natures way of stopping any harm come to your baby. I would play scenarios over and over in my brain, the main one being falling down the stairs while carrying them. I would also torture myself if they had had a near miss that day with harm.

I never had PND, or even the baby blues, it seems like a normal part of hammering home how vunerable they are and how much they need protecting. It happens less when they are older. Now I only have that overwhelming feeling if something happens to a child that looks like mine, on the news etc.

[jewels1900]

never realised there were so many people who felt the same as me, i have a 20 month old boy and have been suffering since he was born although I have admitted how i feel to my health visitor, husband and doctor I have never been completely honest about these horrible images in my head
dont really want to admit all the horrible feelings I have to those closest.
if anyone wants to chat on here and support each other i would be very happy to.

[naehappy]

Please be honest with your GP or counsellor about these images. Every medical practitioner is well aware of the difference between suicidal and homicidal IDEATION (which is an almost universal phenomenon even in people without mental illness), and INTENT which is uncommon, is a sign of serious mental illness and is not what you are describing brokensleeper. They will be able to help you rationalise this and the fact that they will be very blase about it will reassure you that this is common and does not mean you are going mad.