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Parenting

Parenting Cultural Norms

35 replies

Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 04/07/2011 07:28

Does anyone know of any decent books or websites that talk about parenting norms in different countries? I was really intrigued by a thread on here last week where an English woman working as an au pair in Sweden was so horrified by what she saw as abuse that she called social security on the parents, and a Swedish poster now living in England talked about some of the things that are usual in the UK which Swedes see as bad parenting.

I belong to a US, a UK and an Australian parenting forum, and the differences stand out to me, but I'm really fascinated and want to research further. Does anyone else know about/care about this stuff?

Otherwise I'm just going to write it myself. As soon as someone gives me a huge research grant, obviously.

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CheerfulYank · 04/07/2011 07:38

I don't know of any but I think it would be fascinating to read.

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kreecherlivesupstairs · 04/07/2011 08:07

No idea. I have been a mother in four countries and the different approaches are fascinating.

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Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 04/07/2011 08:09

Googling is turning up occasional studies on the different approaches to the medicalisation of birth in different countries but nothing else.

Right, I'm off to prepare a research grant. I'll be back to quiz you all later.

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iskra · 04/07/2011 08:39

There's some anthropological stuff, generally on 'mothering'. I remember reading a study on mothering & work in identity for Asante women in Ghana... Do you have access to Athens?

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hester · 04/07/2011 08:39

What an interesting question. kreecher, can you tell us more?

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Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 04/07/2011 08:46

Nope.

I'm really interested in comparable first world countries, although I do find the more broad ranging stuff fascinating as well, because I'm really thinking about norms in the context of societies where everyone has access to education and good food and shelter and whatnot. I mean, not that I know anything about Ghana, but I'm assuming that some of the societal model there is more about survival than about the ... what I call the "1%" of parenting, the bits we all worry about once the basics are taken care of.

I can see that it'd actually be a really tricky area to research, because I doubt that we can identify our own cultural norms, it's only when you see other people's that it even becomes visible. And then of course it's wildly disparate between socio-economic groups. My American site has a similar demographic base to Mumsnet, so it's really interesting to me to see the differences in cultural norms, but it'd be a bugger to actually do research on.

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Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 04/07/2011 08:46

(sorry x-post, 'nope' was to Iskra!)

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TanteRose · 04/07/2011 08:47
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TanteRose · 04/07/2011 08:48

review*

I highly recommend "Our Babies, Ourselves" to any parent interested in an anthropologically and biologically-oriented approach to parenthood, especially motherhood. It provides numerous data on how biology affects the parent-baby relationship as well as the baby's behavior and objectively presents how various cultures (including the United States') worldwide accommodate and/or neglect these biological factors and the impact that accommodation or neglect has on the parent/baby relationship.

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allhailtheaubergine · 04/07/2011 08:48

What are the big stand out differences between the brits, the australians and the americans?

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iskra · 04/07/2011 08:49

There's an association in Australia doing some work, google Andrea o'Reilly I think. Moving house today so will check in tomorrow with better chat!

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cory · 04/07/2011 08:50

sounds really interesting (I was the Swedish poster btw)

we spend our holidays in Sweden with my extended family but also have enormous respect for MIL and the way she brought up dh and have dcs in ordinary English state schools, so have learnt to juggle two different sets of parenting norms

it's been very interesting to have my own preconceptions tested and shaken up a bit; I think I am a more tolerant person than I was

was just looking at the old photo album of me that my mum brought over and realising this isn't something I can leave around in the living room for my English friends to see: we're naked in half those photos, up to at least 5 or 6 and clearly nobody thought about it at the time- but I bet some of my friends would

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hester · 04/07/2011 09:12

I've just ordered that book, TanteRose. Thanks for the recommendation.

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FullCream · 04/07/2011 09:47

There's very little anthropology on childhood and parenthood, it's also something I'm interested in, although looking more at perspectives from hunter-gatherer communities (who I already work with). I wouldn't say the daily concern for food, shelter and warmth in many communities dominates their views on these issues though. All cultures view raising children in differing ways according to deep-rooted values that don't necessarily have much to do with the local environment.

The people I work with view children in profoundly different ways to the dominant 'western' cultural model. But I'm only just beggining to think about these issues since having my own - perhaps we should combine our research proposals tortoise!

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FullCream · 04/07/2011 09:52

This book could be interesting. Not quite what you asked for but seems to be about the concept of childhood and the role of parenting from a range of different cultural perspectives.

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kreecherlivesupstairs · 04/07/2011 11:01

Even a country like Oman differed hugely. People in the more developed parts were more interested in education for their children for example, than those either in villages where the learning was all done in a mosque or more extremely the Beduin who didn't have access to book learning at all and it wasn't valued.

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lisianthus · 04/07/2011 15:32

Could someone direct me to the thread tortoise mentioned. please? It sounds fascinating!

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TanteRose · 04/07/2011 15:38
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CheerfulYank · 04/07/2011 17:00

That was very interesting cory . People here (in Minnesota) have much the same attitude toward the outdoors and children. Wonder if it's because most of the early settlers were Scandinavians? :)

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ToysRLuv · 04/07/2011 18:40

There are definite differences. I am from Scandinavia and cannot understand why DH (English) thinks it's inappropriate to bathe/swim or sauna naked with your (young) children. He thinks that he needs to wear a bathing suit. DS is just going to think that lady bits are ok to show, but willies are "bad" Hmm . DH also cannot go to the toilet if anyone else is in the room (DS, for example). Neither does he want anyone else to be on the toilet while he is there (I ignore him a lot of the time)..

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MoonFaceMamaaaaargh · 04/07/2011 20:20

watching with interest... Smile

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Gilberte · 04/07/2011 20:33

Fascinating discussion. I have just read the other thread too. FWIW I'm English and spent my a lot of my childhood naked and barefoot in the summer(I grew up in the 70s in the countryside). There is cinefilm of me riding a bicycle nude etc. I realise this might not be typical or is it only in the last couple of decades that things have really changed here?

Saying that I can't go to the toilet on my own as one or other of my DDs is in with me asking me if I need to do a wee or a poo and usually wanting a good look as well. I'm not saying I wouldn't like some privacy, I just don't get it at the moment.

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Othersideofthechannel · 04/07/2011 20:56

You might find this documentary interesting. I haven't seen it yet but it has been on my list to rent for a while

Babies

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quirrelquarrel · 04/07/2011 21:14

I was brought up by two foreign parents and although my mum certainly brought her special brand of wackiness into the mix, by the time I was six or so (been in England for just over a year) I knew that my parents were different and it was because they were foreign. For me, I really wanted them to be English and have the right accents. I wanted a sweetie day, not stodgy quinoa in fake tupperware. I wanted clothes that smelt of fabric conditioner like the other kids, tissues in a packet, to forget how to talk my other two languages most of all. I'd be at school and be told I was clever all day for doing the simplest things, and then come home to hear that I should be doing more, that I was this and that and always taking the easy way out. Not that they didn't praise me, but there was a big difference, higher standards, I guess.

But also things like unquestioning obedience, which I didn't see amongst my friends and definitely not now. Little kids in England (often) just laugh in their parents' faces when they're told to do something and they're negotiated with all the time, my little cousins in France all the way to my strapping 19 year old big boy cousins always do as they're told, and they manage to be happy independent thinkers at the same time, imagine that.
Umm what else...discipline. Self-discipline is a huge thing in our family. Things like getting over boredom...my mum still tells me off if she sees me catch up a book for two minutes waiting for something, she thinks I should learn to be bored and not be so easy on myself (I agree with that...). But basically no one over there wants a cry baby or someone who can't get up and deal with their own scrapes and bruises. When I first came to England I was v. surprised because all the grown ups seemed to talk to me like I was a baby (not baby talk- but things like 'all right, love, you just tell me if you need anything, anything at all!' and coddling little pleasantries, no straight talking, as if they were at our beck and call) and also because people made a big fuss out of the tiniest things like bee stings or organising every little thing for the kids (like the mothers would know exactly what the child needed for school the next day, they'd set out the laundered PE kit all ready etc, whereas my mum always made sure I knew she didn't have to do all that for me). When I was little, my mum always made fun of me, always always teased me, and if I suddenly stood up and said that had inhibited me or caused terrible scarring psychological damage I'd be straight in line for more teasing, but I think in England I would really be taken seriously. Oh and I was always struck when I went to sleepovers and we were allowed to watch TV and have breakfast made and brought to us in the mornings. Wow! I always overate, partly because I loved the whole ritual...lazy decadence after my own home of healthy, spartan, obedience etc.

There's not so much attachment to things....no snacking between meals :o even the French plastics work hard at school. I asked my cousin over there if he liked school and he shrugged and said that it was school, you had to do well, but what was there to like? Whereas here schools are completely focused on engaging the child, no child left behind and their complaints are carefully noted down and dealt with i.e. we are always being asked "how could we make this lesson more fun? What could we do to make it more interesting?", which has come from the parents, I think. Good or bad thing? Don't want to be too negative in this post. England is a very childcentric place. Over in France etc children are welcomed when they have something valuable to say, but that's not very often, so they should clear off during apero and that's that, no squalling, no 'histoires', no hanging on their every word.

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Tortoiseonthehalfshell · 05/07/2011 02:55

Oh, how lovely to come back to such great comments, I thought this would be one of my threads where everyone would be politely ignoring the nerd. I'm going to check out all the links above.

Cory, yes, glad you found me, it was your comments, I'm just never sure about naming posters!

Allhail - bearing in mind that this is not at all scientific but just me hanging around internet forums which represent a particular demographic - the Americans tend to be far more into sleep training and routines and interventions than the English/Australians. A friend of mine took her 15 month old to a physical therapist because he wasn't yet walking. The 'sleep without training' group are seen as pretty hardcore AP. There are a LOT more well baby checkups in the first couple of years, the parents refer to their paediatricians for both medical queries and what seem to me to be more parenting queries (like, how do I get my 4 month old to sleep in a cot?), and there is generally more of an expectation that good parenting includes helping your child fit into particular bracketed norms and involving experts quite often.

But they almost all breastfeed, and those who struggle often end up exclusively expressing, rather than formula feeding (or mix feeding, at most). They worry about TV exposure a bit more than the English, I think? And I see a lot more threads there worrying about organic food/baby feeding techniques/baby led weaning in general, rather than the more lassez-faire attitude here. Whether that translates to any actual difference in what the children eat is anyone's guess, of course!

One of the big things is the lack of maternity leave, which in the US means that several of my friends, who are all middle class privileged women who badly wanted children, have had to go back to work fulltime or nearly so from 6 weeks post partum. So the issue of work and childcare and attendant complications like pumping breastmilk looms a lot larger.

I actually find it a lot harder to say what the norms are for Australians, because I'm in the thick of that! All my friends are extended breastfeeders and cloth nappy users and often Montessori types, but I don't think that's the norm at all.

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