I have no idea how to discipline my children how do you keep them in line?

[NotInTheMood]

my children and 3 and 6 years and generally they are well behaved. When they are naughty i do shout and tell then why they have been naughty and why mummy is upset and they shouldn't do it again.This normally is enough to make them realise and say sorry . But lately my 6 year old is testing his boundaries, he never's listens and I mean never. I will ask him nicely to do something, then again more firmly but in the end I end up shouting like a mad women because he is so frustrating as he seems to do the complete opposite. I think i get angry even more for him making me shout i don't want to shout at him all the time.i do try to make things into a game like the first person to tidy up or get to the top of the stairs for bed but even that is having no effect on him.

[MavisEnderby]

ds 7 has started to be quite trying.I have resorted to doing things such as

Removing Wii for a few days
Docking pocket money
Cancelling playdate.

I THINK it is working.He was getting very cheeky and answering back incessantly and shouting wasn't working...

[MavisEnderby]

(He thinks I am an evil witch though,:o)

[NickRobinsonsloveslave]

I am currently participating in a parenting course...and I STILL have no idea how to control my DS3's behaviour.
I find the only thing that works for me is to lock myself in the downstairs bathroom.

[NotInTheMood]

Arrraaaagggh he is driving me insane with his answering back and has been having complete met downs in public when he doesn't get his own way. I always let him play in the park after school and we are generally the last to go yet as soon as I say we are going now-he pushes for 5 minutes more and so on. Its made worse by the fact his 3 year old brother will follow his lead and both will end up running away from me. I start to walk off (pretending im going without you malarky) and then he has a complete meltdown and cries, drags his felt whilst saying how horrible I am and how he is not going to do this or that to spite me. He just doesn't seen to appreciate what I do and he always wants more.

[NotInTheMood]

'melt downs'

[NotInTheMood]

In fact im starting to not like him very much iykwim and yet would say we were really close once.

[MavisEnderby]

I am watching this with interest tbh.I feel I have been a bit "soft" on ds since his dad died and the last month or so he has been very trying,withthe answering back stuff etc.Like I say shouting just ends up a slanging match so now I am doing the removing priveledges stuff.He answers back he gets one warning.The second time it is something immediate.Like I say we have had Wii removal for a day,early bedtime,and cancelled playdate as recent ones.Lots of praise for good behaviour though.It is very tiring!

[Hassled]

Do you explain why you don't want him to do something? If you can make it a really long and boring explanation that's usually enough to make them go off and do something else, just to escape.

But it does work - don't say "don't draw on the walls", say "please don't draw on the walls because then we'll have to walk all the way to B&Q and it's really hot/raining so we can buy paint which means we won't have any money left for the cinema and then we'll need brushes and...." But make it duller than that.

And don't shout. Shouting is giving him attention. Speak quietly but with menace. Don't drag anything out - again, that's attention for bad behaviour. I never bothered with reward charts (although that can work well) - when mine were older than yours I deducted money from their pocket money, but otherwise just straight to the bedroom until I'd calmed down or they'd calmed down. And never ever miss the opportunity to praise the good behaviour.

[shivster1980]

Don't do the "naughty" word with your 6 yr old particularly. I have an SN child who suffered nursery telling him he was naughty (for a year before I discovered it) and it massively affected his self esteem. Your DC is NOT naughty their behaviour however DAMN WELL IS! We talk about doing "good thinking" and "not good thinking" with our 5 yr old DS. It emphasises that we DO NOT appreciate the behaviour but we DO appreciate him. I do shout occasionally and it always makes things worse and I instantly regret it.

No great advice from me, except to say, remember to cherish the good times with your DC and also... when your temper is about to blow and you have had enough count all the pictures on your wall/ornaments... it helps!

Best of luck!

[Ilovehotchoc]

NotInTheMood are you me?! I know exactly where you're coming from, you are not alone, trust me!

[NotInTheMood]

Thank you glad im not alone. I absolutely hate shouting and try to avoid it but its so difficult when they ignore you. Ive never done naughty step or time out. And tbh he's not allowed on the wii during the school week so I guess I can take away toys and priviledges. Thing is i always end up giving it back once the situations calmed down im too soft

[bejeezus]

also watching this with interest.
i have a 6 yo dd who is driving me round the f*ing bend, recently

i have tried all the stuff hassled says-long explainations-she interrupts or walks away. whether i speak quietly and calmly or roar-she shouts over me or stomps off slamming doors behind her. went to her bedroom tonight-and screamed at me from there for 2 hours until she fell asleep.

she gets lots and lots of positive attention and praise for good team work etc but still she blows up about ANYTHING she is NOT allowed to do, despite calm and rational explanations

i want to thump her

[addressbook]

I am struggling with my ds aged 5 for these exact same reasons. I have had a tough patch recently and whilst I generally enjoy parenting my two, at the moment I am a bit down and just crave some peace and quiet. I am shouting more and at teatime today I really lost it and called my ds a 'vile little boy'

I did apologise, said I didn't mean it and that sometimes people say things they don't mean in the heat of anger. I told him I loved him and that he was a great wee boy but that the cheek and answering back and constant battles are not on.

I posted a while ago about losing it with my two year old as well. Not a good patch in my parenting and I feel so guilty.

[newfashionedmum]

There are two problems with shouting (by the way i do do it too sometimes!!) - firstly, that you have lost control and they can probably sense that. And secondly that when we do it we are demonstrating that the way to get people to do what you want is to intimidate them or shout at them.

Your 6 yo is testing the boundaries like you say. Our 6 yo DD does this too. If you can, see it as part of his normal development - something he needs to do as he becomes mmore independant - and see if that helps you stay calm and in control. He needs to know you're in charge.

Choose your battles - think about what behaviours really matter and what don't that much, then only say no to the things that really matter. Try and make a list of the nos and keep it small - dangerous or violent behavior for eg. Once you say no, stick to it. Things that don't matter too much, just let them go. still praise when he does do them, still be imaginative and make them fun (really hard work that bit I know!!) And think of ways for him to have more control - eg choose what he has for breakfast, what clothes he wears, etc.

Also ask yourself sometimes is he actually behaving younger than is real age - needing to be babied a bit - if so, let him be a bit. i wouldn't do the pretending to walk off thing as this can make children really anxious - he needs to know you won't leave him. But you can introduce some natural consequences - for eg if he doesn't come now there won't be time for him to have a pudding / play after tea or whatever he normally does next. With our DD she loves bedtime story, so when she went through phases of messing about at bedtime we'd say there'll be no time for bedtime story if she doesn't do what she needs to straight away. usually give her two warnings / reminders then count to 3. We don't often get to 3!! Even this though all said in a calm reasonable voice rather than an angry one, which turns it into a confrontation.

Its so hard isn't it - and i only have one! but you are half way there just because you recognise its a problem and you're thinking about different ways to deal with it. give yourself a pat on the back

if you are getting really stressed there is this book - you might be able to borrow from the library - called 'the explosive child' it explains why there's no point trying to reason with a child in meltdown and also has suggestions how to avoid them. i found it very useful and can probably be used for most children not just 'chronically inflexible' ones....

Good luck!

[newfashionedmum]

addressbook - done the guilt thing too - and apologising is a silver lining - because they will at least then learn that its ok to admit when you've been wrong and apologise for it. Also they are learning that we are human, we do have feelings - and that people in the big bad world have them too. I can still vividly remembered the first time I ROARED at Dd, she was only just turned 3 - I still cringe when i think about it and the shock on her poor little face!

[addressbook]

some really good tips newfashionedmum thanks

[messybessie]

My 5 year old is exactly the same. He doesn't listen at all, and refuses to do as he's told. I get very very wound up as I try to tell him calmly what he has done that is wrong/unkind/dangerous, but he won't look me in the eye, or laughs straight at me, or makes annoying noises in my face.

I then just see red and have to leave the room. It's all very well saying that shouting isn't productive. I know it isn't. But what do you do when they just won't listen.

No consequence seems to have any effect. I know I'm not doing him any good whatsoever and I find it so frustrating.

So much easier when they just wouldn't eat / teething.

[newfashionedmum]

and if you're craving peace and quiet then can you get some from another grown up for an hour a day / once a week / sometime? I can even ask DD sometimes (nicely) to leave me alone for five minutes because i need some peace and quiet - she seems to be OK with that funnily enough - as long is I reciprocate when she asks me Not possible with a 2 yr old but that's what nap time's for!

Someone recently described that incessant chatter/mithering they do as like being pecked to death by chickens

[babartheelephant]

One word: testosterone

Read: Steve Biddulph Raising Boys for general boy advice
and then Christopher Green Beyond Toddlerdom which is funny and lightens everything up
and also (can't rememebr author) How to Listen so you kids will talk and Talk so your kids will listen is another favourite
Star charts, rewards, catch them out being good.

[AllDirections]

Ha ha newfashionedmum, I like that phrase, 'chronically inflexible'.

DD3 who is 4 will refuse to do something that she WANTS to do just because I also want her to do it!!

[MavisEnderby]

Truly?Testosterone?Will that account for door slamming huffiness in 7 yo???Normal??

[messybessie]

DS seems very testosterone fuelled. He also suffers from over-tiredness, in that he gets very hyperactive when he's tired and can't calm down.

I've tried reading Raising Boys and How to Talk but they annoyed me to be honest. Actually I found raising boys helpful in explaining a few things but how to talk wasn't really my thing - maybe that's my problem

[AllDirections]

newfashionedmum 'Someone recently described that incessant chatter/mithering they do as like being pecked to death by chickens'

You have really made me laugh!

[newfashionedmum]

sorry messy, x-post.
consequences don't work at all with some kids - maybe try the book i recommended and see if it helps, it actually talks about this. Maybe he has trouble dealing with shame and so tries to brazen it out /block it out with the cheek.
Our DD knows how to push my buttons too, with me its when she ignores me completely or when she insists on showing me she'll do the thing in her own sweet ime - eg she just has to read one more page /colour one more thing in etc. Drove me MAD but have recently decided to let her do that - whatever i need her to do next isn't usually that urgent - i was just getting cross because i expected her to do as she's told immediately and not try to make a point - the fact i've now decided to let her do it because it doesn't matter to me makes me feel more in control and it no longer feels like a battle.

[newfashionedmum]

i like some of the ideas in 'how to talk' but it is very - no offence meant here - 'american' in style - which can really grate if its not your thing.