"That makes Mummy sad" - exercise in empathy or emotional blackmail?

[DitaVonCheese]

DD is just over two. Sometimes when I'm trying to get her to do something, or to stop doing something, I tell her "It makes Mummy sad/happy/cross/etc when you do that". I hoped it would teach her to think about the effect of her actions on other people and would be a useful lesson in empathy, but at first I felt as though I was just emotionally blackmailing her. Now that seems to have worn off but was wondering how other parents felt about it ... ?

[AMumInScotland]

If you say it when it actually does make you sad, then I think it's fair. If you're not sad but just want her to do things your way, then I think it probably does count as emotional blackmail, and probably just makes it harder for her to judge other peoples emotions as she'll have a feeling of when you are sad and when you're not, and will be confused if you're not being honest about it.

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

IKWYM.

I don't like it because that way of phrasing it seems to put responsibility for your emotions onto her. But the other day I had a conversation with ds1 (just 4) in which I said 'You know you don't like it when I shout at you? Well, I don't like it when you shout at me either.' and you could see the light bulb come on.

[eviscerateyourmemory]

I think that she is too young to really understand that approach in any event.

[Cyb]

At 2 I think yes/no/distraction to behaviour more appropriate

[shantishanti]

I don't think its ever too early to start explaining why you do/don't want them to do something. And if 'because it makes me sad/cross' etc is part of the reason, say so.

[DitaVonCheese]

Thanks for your input, it is interesting to read different POV.

I am very wary of the "because I say so" approach so I do want to avoid that.

shanti part of my reasoning was that I wouldn't know when she did start understanding so I might as well do it now and then I won't miss the moment iyswim, plus it gives me a chance to try out different parenting techniques without confusing her too much

I may be having a PFB moment, but I think her understanding is quite good - in fact sometimes she surprises me with her level of understanding. Only example I can think of off the top of my head is one when she pooed in the bath with DH a few months ago, and we told a few people within her earshot. Following that, she became very worried about pooing in the bath and would often panic while she was in there, so I ended up sitting her down and explaining we had only told people because we thought it was funny and we weren't cross with her and I was sorry and she didn't need to worry about it - which seemed to solve the problem completely. We've also "talked" quite well about her anxieties about starting pre-school. I could be projecting/reading more into it than there is though :)

Incidentally, DH has just said that he used to say "I don't like it when you do [x]" but felt that that was confusing and "it makes me sad when you do [x]" was easier for her to understand.

[Roo83]

I think you're right that they can understand quite a lot even at 2. I prefer to let my children see my emotions and also to learn that their behaviour can impact and hurt others feeling. I show pain if I hurt myself and in the same way would show if I was sad. As someone else said, the only time I think it would turn into emotional blackmail is if you pretend to be upset just to get them to behave

[cookieraymond]

I was told by my pre-school teachers to use the OP approach to encourage emotional empathy and understanding, instead of keep saying 'no' all the time.

It seems to have worked too!

hth

[putthekettleon]

Only this evening I was telling my 2.9 yo DD off for messing around at the dinner table and she said 'mummy are you sad?'. I said 'yes actually I am sad, it makes me sad when you won't eat the food I've cooked for you'. In the end she actually ate her food, so I guess it worked!

I don't think there's anything wrong with teaching them about emotions etc to promote empathy. If we're watching telly I sometimes say things like 'oh no, Timmy's sad because the owl was mean to him... oh look, he's happy now, he's giving him a cuddle!'

[DitaVonCheese]

Thanks, that's really helpful.

At DD's pre-school they often ask questions during story time like "How is [x character] feeling? Why do you think they feel like that?" which I thought was quite a nice way of helping them to think about other people's feelings.

[Lamorna]

I don't like it, I don't think that you should make them responsible for your emotions and it can be very worrying for a deeply sensitive child.

[sethstarkaddersmackerel]

I was thinking some more about this.
OP, what kind of things did you have in mind that you find 'It makes Mummy sad' to be the best reason for her not to do?
I mean, isn't there always a better reason (eg you have to eat the dinner I cooked because it's good for you and you will be hungry later otherwise, you need to wear your hat because it's cold, you mustn't do that because you will break it). What kind of things can a two year old do for which the primary reason not to is making Mummy sad?
If it is something for which there is another good reason for her not to, why prioritise the making Mummy sad reason?

My older children sometimes do things for which the main reason not to is that it makes me sad (commenting on my bad skin for instance!) or gives me a headache (singing loudly which would be fine if they were on their own) and I would of course use myself as the main reason in that case, and not feel in the least uncomfortable about it.

[DitaVonCheese]

The best examples I can think of are things like throwing food off her highchair ("Please don't do that, Mummy has to tidy it up and it makes her sad") or helping tidy up ("Thank you for helping me, that makes Mummy happy").

Sometimes I'll say "The thing is, my job as your mummy means I have to make sure you're warm/not hungry/not too tired, so you need to put your hat on/eat your dinner/go to sleep etc" but I don't tend to insist unless it's really something non-negotiable like not wanting to put her seatbelt on.

[seeker]

No it's not fair. A child should never be made to feel that they are responsible for an adult's feelings.

[seeker]

It's OK o say "Please don't make a mess like that - Mummy will have to tidy it up and then there will be no time to play before bed" but really not "It makes mummy sad" That's just too big a responsibility for a little child. "You mean I can make this person, who is the most important thing in my life - my rock, my safe harbour - I can make her sad by dropping my banana?" That would just make their world uncertain when it should be rock solid.

[AnyFuleKno]

I think a two year old can understand that. I do use this to good effect, particularly when dd breaks something or is destructive. We have a big floor to ceiling bookcase which is tempting for her to pull books out of. there's no way to stop her doing this, so I've made it a policy to say 'please don't pull mummy's books out, if they get broken it makes mummy feel sad'. I think it's a good way to introduce a child to the concept of consequences.

[DitaVonCheese]

Worried now :( I have occasionally tried "You can help me tidy up and then we'll have time to read a book before we have to go or I can do it but then we won't have time for a book" but she doesn't really seem to understand choices very well yet (not that "It will make Mummy sad" guarantees obedience by any means - I just feel I should give her a reason, particularly if I am getting annoyed).

How about "It makes Mummy happy when you do x"? Just realised that I think I only say this when it's something she's already done out of her own choice - eg "Thank you for helping, it makes Mummy happy when you do that" - rather than trying to coerce her - eg "It would make Mummy happy if you did x".

[perfectstorm]

I don't do it. But I do say, "that isn't kind." If he does something sweet or helpful, I say "that was very kind, thank you."

The other day he found his shoes, his father had put them somewhere new after a walk, and said cheerfully "I am very kind!" which made me laugh.

I think the concept of kindness is a good one. It can be detached from your feelings, and it's about the action, IYSWIM.

[perfectstorm]

I think trying to control via emotion is dangerous, incidentally. It's okay with a loving parent, but just look at relationships, and how many adults abuse partners by using the giving or witholding of affection as a control. I just don't like the idea of training them into thinking that's normal. So I try to describe their behaviour and not my reaction to it.

[Simic]

I think it's a good idea to describe pretty much as you would for adults. I would never say to an adult that I was sad because they didn't do what I want. I am sad about my daughter's rabbit dying but to me the word "sad" doesn't express what I feel when my two year old doesn't want me to brush his teeth. I think I would separate the expression of an emotion from the action of the child. I think it's ok to give them a cuddle and say "Oh I just feel really cross! All the toys are over the floor and I just tidied them up and it's bedtime now and I just have to start tidying all over again! I am cross mainly because I'm tired! and now I've got this work to do - will you help me tidy up?"
I think you have to be careful not only about what you do say but about what you don't. If you say you're cross almost always children will assume that they're the reason for that - even when the only reason is that you're tired. I think it's always worth explaining your emotions clearly and as honestly as you can - with me it's usually that I'm acting really cross because I'm having trouble dealing with my frustration not because the children are somehow inherently bad.

[Simic]

And when you carry on being really honest you then get (with my five year old): "I am cross because I want you to do what I want and you're cross because you want me to do what you want!"
Maybe followed by:
"What are we going to do? Shall we think of things we could do and decide together what we like best?"

[wolfhound]

I agree with Scottishmummy at the beginning of the thread - it's okay to tell her your actual emotions but not to use emotional words in order to get her to do what you want. If my two are misbehaving and not listening to me and i'm getting irritated, I sometimes say 'Mummy's beginning to feel cross now.' I think they pick up on your emotions, even when you're trying to suppress them, and naming them is good. My 3yo now says that to me sometimes - if he's not got something he wants, he'll say 'I'm feeling cross, Mummy' with a frown. I think that's quite emotionally literate of him. But I don't use it too much, and only when I'm genuinely feeling a strong emotion. I would probably only use 'sad' if I was feeling tearful & upset about something (e.g. a death or other unpleasant event) not just for things I disapprove of.

Like perfectstorm I use 'kind' a lot - if my 3yo helps his brother or me, I say 'How kind' or 'Thank you for being kind' etc. I try to praise the good actions more than criticise the bad ones. And I accept that there's a certain amount of blowing off steam. Sometimes they just need a change of environment (eg going outside) if they're getting rambunctious.

[Lamorna]

I think it makes you sound like a Victorian heroine who will take to her bed with smelling salts if she is upset! I really don't think that a child should have to walk on eggshells in case 'I upset mummy'!

[Acanthus]

I don't like "It makes me feel sad". Better to explain the actual consequences than make her feel that your feelings are under her control. A very damaging lesson for when she is older. You are responsible for your feelings, not her.

Say "thank you for helping me" or "That was a kind thing to do " or "Now the floor is messy". "that makes me feel sad" is untrue, manipulative and also slightly pathetic. Appropriate if someone has died or someone is ill and you need to tell her about it, but really not appropriate in relation to her behaviour. Unless she has just said "I hate you " in which case go right ahead.

[Acanthus]

Just read your latest post. Nope, not happy either. Better "Thank you for helping, now I can have a rest" or " thank you for helping, look how tidy it is now".