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Dilema............"Kaffirs Illustrated"..............

(32 Posts)
Gwenick Fri 10-Jun-05 00:34:16

I'm in the process of putting the prints (reproductions) on our website - and in the catalouge sent 'fresh' from South Africa have some across a set entitle "Kaffirs Illustrated".......after doing some research this is indeed what George Angas entitled his drawings back in 1849.........

Problem is this.........."Kaffir" is now seen as a VERY derogetory (sp) name along the lines of the "N" word for blacks in South Africa..........and some of our 'target' customers are probably if not from SA, will know what 'kaffir' means.

Do we include those prints on our website - with the name (they're really nice "African" pictures actually) or exclude at the risk of offending????

Answers on a postcard please

SaintGeorge Fri 10-Jun-05 00:38:45

How about including them but only listing them as 'George Angas prints'

Gwenick Fri 10-Jun-05 00:40:22

we have thought of that........but chances are they'll arrive direct from the supplier to the person's front door........and may well include the title on the paperwork somewhere [frown]

SaintGeorge Fri 10-Jun-05 00:42:18

Ah - yeah, could be a problem then. I have relatives in SA and can understand why the dilemma.

assumedname Fri 10-Jun-05 00:46:47

Sell them but with a disclaimer?

HappyDaddy Fri 10-Jun-05 07:48:16

Would you sell them if they had the N word in the title instead? If not, don't sell them.

Nightynight Fri 10-Jun-05 08:02:54

Gwenick, what does kaffir mean in south africa?

I don't think you are obliged to stick to the original title.

SoupDragon Fri 10-Jun-05 08:05:50

Call them "George Angas prints" but when someone buys them, send a message saying "please be aware that the original title of these prints is "Kaffirs Illustrated" and they may be called this in any documentation"

If the person says that they object, can you simply cancel the transaction?

flashingnose Fri 10-Jun-05 08:48:29

<nosey> What are so selling Gwenick - sounds interesting. Are you allowed to post a link to your website?

flashingnose Fri 10-Jun-05 08:48:41

so = you

saadia Fri 10-Jun-05 08:51:15

Gwenick, just thought I'd mention "Kaffir" is actually an Arabic word meaning "unbeliever" ie someone who is not Muslim. I don't know how it came to be used in SA though.

Nightynight Fri 10-Jun-05 08:54:32

that's what I understood too saadia. Actually, Ive heard it being used by Muslims, as an insult towards ex-Muslims.

morningpaper Fri 10-Jun-05 09:00:28

I agree with Soupdragon.

Gwenick Fri 10-Jun-05 09:07:12

Thanks for that Idea - soupy (and for 'backup' Soupy). I'll suggest that to DH.

Flashing nose - we sell African Furniture and Furnishing can't really post a 'link' as I REALLY don't want to keep advertising it without having paid for a £25 advertisment in the small business ad's section - but I'll give you a BIG clue to help you find it on Google.

If you like GOing to AFRICA

Ellbell Fri 10-Jun-05 09:53:25


Can you contact the supplier and check whether the original title is likely to be used (and if so how prominently)? If you say that you are considering not featuring the prints because you fear that the title is offensive they may consider NOT using it in their documentation.

Otherwise, yes, echo Soupdragon's idea. Definitely don't use original title on your website, but I don't see why you shouldn't feature the prints, since they themselves are not offensive, just the title (which simply reflects the different usage and attitudes of 150 years ago).

Ellbell Fri 10-Jun-05 09:54:56

BTW, meant to say that I checked out the website, and it looks fab. Lovely outdoor furniture. Shame our 'patio' (which is glorifying it somewhat) is the size of postage stamp....

Gwenick Fri 10-Jun-05 09:55:44

Thanks Ellbell

We're trying to 'clean it up' (according to DH) before Sunday when we've got a 2 week radio ad campaign starting {PANIC EMOTICON]

flashingnose Sat 11-Jun-05 20:04:04

Gwenick, the furniture on your site is stunningly gorgeous - can you let me know when you've got a pauper's range in ? Seriously, it's wonderful stuff - hope it goes well

Just out of interest, would you have any idea how I could try and find paintings by a particular Zimbabwean artist?

happymerryberries Sat 11-Jun-05 20:16:09

Have family with liks to SA and understand the dilema. I would avoid the use of Kaffir at all coat, tbh. I realise that people may be 'reclaiming' the term, like gays reclaimed 'queer', but I think this one could be misunderstood.

WideWebWitch Sat 11-Jun-05 20:59:54

Gwenick, <ahem> there's a misplaced apostrophe on your spiel on the home page, hope you don't mind my mentioning it Agree with Ellbell.

Gwenick Sun 12-Jun-05 12:55:24

WWW - sorry only just seen your message about it.........where is it (the missed placed apostrophe) - thank

charliecat Sun 12-Jun-05 12:59:17

theres also a few bits of furniture that have 0.00 on the price..

Gwenick Sun 12-Jun-05 13:02:36

thanks charlie - we do know about that.....they have to contact us for the prices for those (which they have to do to buy stuff as the online payment system is still undergoing maintanence (sp).

charliecat Sun 12-Jun-05 13:04:54

Ok, I just thought they might be able to put them in the basket and get them for free along with a paid item!

Gwenick Sun 12-Jun-05 13:06:07

lol - no - there's also a 'disclaimer' in the T&C's about prices - and how if they're 'wrong' on the website the won't get them for that price

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