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Would gay marriage undermine the exalted status of heterosexual marriage?

(196 Posts)
Pruni Thu 09-Jun-05 15:07:23

Message withdrawn

ninah Thu 09-Jun-05 15:10:22

I don't see marriage as having any exhalted status and I wonder that gay couples aspire to it
But if they want it they should have it. Your friend sounds bigoted imo

anorak Thu 09-Jun-05 15:15:47

I wonder what your friend would say to my gay friends who've been together 21 years. As it stands they've had to tie their lives together legally to make sure that if one died the survivor would be able to hang on to their own property. The law's discriminatory against such couples at the moment and something has to be done about it.

I agree that marriage has no exalted status. Lots of hetero couples treat it like an option they can get out of the minute something goes wrong.

ninah Thu 09-Jun-05 15:18:05

I have a range of gay friends from the cliche rogue males to the faithful committed couples, it makes me when they are referred to as some kind of separate species

Fio2 Thu 09-Jun-05 15:18:15

agree with anorak

Fio2 Thu 09-Jun-05 15:18:44

exactly ninah

beatie Thu 09-Jun-05 15:19:35

Nope - but short-lived celebrity weddings do

beatie Thu 09-Jun-05 15:19:52

Nope - but short-lived celebrity weddings do

TheVillageIdiot Thu 09-Jun-05 15:20:28

ok, in order..

1. I think marriage is already de-valued in todays society. Eas of divorce and social accpetance of divorcees (in my eyes not necessariliy a bad thing). Also the fact that women are much more independent in this day an age, they no longer feel that it is essential to stay in an unhappy marriage. Gay marriage would have no impact except on those who have strong religous reliefs about such things (a topic in it's slef)

2. Yes to divorce being a good thing, although personally I would like to marry for life. That said I think people would think a lot more about getting married if divorce wasn't so easy.

3. Less prepared to work at it, absolutely, because we live in a society where people don't tend to settle for things (anything) that they are not 100% happy with. Society is becoming more and more lazy and that reflects in our outlook on other things as well as just work.. easy to get divorced - no social stigma etc

4. hmmm, might get shot down but repression to some degree. People say these days abuse in the home is getting worse, I believe that is more likely the case that people aren't afraid to speak out as much as they once were. Also what is acceptable of a mans behaviour in the home has also changed over recent decades

sorry have ran out of time...

motherinferior Thu 09-Jun-05 15:20:39

Oh dear, I keep hoping for some controversy to distract me from work.

PrettyCandles Thu 09-Jun-05 15:22:55

It depends what you think marriage is. I got married in a civil ceremony, after always expecting to marry in a religious ceremony where the contract is in the presence of God as much as in the presence of the community. To my astonishment I realised that this verbal contract I was making with my future dh was as meaningful to me, and as important and as binding even though God wasn't involved.

Frankly, same-sex 'marriages' are not acceptable in main-stream religion, but why should they not be acceptable to the community? If they are an expression of commitment and intent to tie one's life and one's future to that of another person, then why should some people be barred from doing that? I don't agree that 'co-habiting' partners shoudl have the same rights as married partners. If they want those rights then they should get married. Equally, if same-sex partners want those rights, then why shouldn't they have the option of getting married?

And I agree, I too have seen discussed research that says that ^in general^ the children of married parents do better than those of unmarried parents. Of course there are many committed unmarried cohabiting parents with stable and successful children, as there are the opposit too. Research just shows the overall picture, not the specifics.

Pruni Thu 09-Jun-05 15:23:43

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Blu Thu 09-Jun-05 15:25:03

I think marriage is now such a mish mash of old feudal cutoms, religious history and a contemporary patchwork of reactive law cleuses, that it should be abolished, and replaced by a purely religious marriage for people who are actually religious, but which doesn't have any legal weight, and a civil partnership - a sort of 'family constitution' - which is open to any configuration of consenting adults, hetero, homo - and, why not, more than 2 if that suits them!

bran Thu 09-Jun-05 15:25:41

I don't think your friend really understands statistics, even if his/her quote is correct there's no real indicator of causation. I mean, a child may be more likely to do well if one or both parents are committed and loving to the child, and it may be that these types of people are more likely to get and stay married, but it's the parenting style that makes the difference not the marriage certificate. Your friend seems to be inferring that if people got married their children would be more successful, which is rubbish as they would still have the same parenting style as when they were unmarried.

Pruni Thu 09-Jun-05 15:25:56

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Blackduck Thu 09-Jun-05 15:26:02

You decided to get married - you wanted to get married - I accept your choice, but I don't see why I should be penalised because I chose not to get married. And it makes me even more annoyed that they want to extend rights to gay people who sign a commitment (note, not marriage), but won't offer the same rights to couples who cohabit - wheres the equality in that

Pruni Thu 09-Jun-05 15:26:29

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motherinferior Thu 09-Jun-05 15:26:43

It also depends on what you mean by 'do well'.

mcmudda Thu 09-Jun-05 15:27:12

I'm surprised that so many people still get married. For me it was important because I'm a Christian and I wanted to make a public commitment to my hubby, but for people who don't have a faith I don't see why they should feel any compulsion to marry.

Most people, gay or straight, live together before getting married anyway, so for them what difference does a piece of paper make?

Personally I would rather marriage was only an option if the life commitment/fidelity bit was an important issue, otherwise just live together and get the legal issues sorted out by the govt ASAP. If people do want to make an effort to be committed for life then great, but don't call it a marriage - that's something different. Easier said than done methinks.

I do think that a lot of people get married for the wedding, or because it's the next logical step after being together for X amount of time. I think those reasons are pretty unconvincing.

Pruni Thu 09-Jun-05 15:27:15

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ninah Thu 09-Jun-05 15:27:40

gets my vote blu!

Blu Thu 09-Jun-05 15:27:43

MI would it be controversial enough of me to ask you and yur DP to enter into a family Constitution with DP and i? We'd have to have a pre-nuptial about the cats, obviously...

mcmudda Thu 09-Jun-05 15:28:16

Ah - Blu - much more succinct than me

Pruni Thu 09-Jun-05 15:28:56

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alicatsg Thu 09-Jun-05 15:29:22

Personally I think marriage is more about the personal commitment than about the civil status if you see what I mean. So I have no problem with gay weddings at all.

However I do think it can be seen as easy to divorce though I doubt many people who go through a divorce would see it as easy. Some of my colleagues are getting married with the get out clause in the back of their mind - "if it doesn't work out...". Its maybe old fashioned but I do think that a marriage is something to be worked at and looked after just like any other relationship (friend, work etc).

What concerns me about the people I know who are getting married is that they are totally focused on the wedding day and have no real plan or view for what comes later. DH and I married after living together but it was still a shock to realise that we were legally one in some way. I find it baffling that someone on a relatively low salary can be planning to spend £400 on wedding shoes for one day but not have had a discussion about how she and her dh-to-be will manage money for example.

and to the marriage certificate/happy kids thing? no don't believe it. do kids automatically do better once their parents marry? nah. illogical captain,

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