Why is IVF wrong? Want to know your views

[Pruni]

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[pinkroses]

wow, what a horrible thing for someone to say to you. People can be so cruel. I suppose IVF is science getting involved, but I personally think it is a great thing. I would be devastated if I didn't have children in my life.

[mancmum]

I bet you get these comments from people who never had a moments trouble conceiving and know nothing of the hell infertility can bring.... I personally push people when they say it is wrong and make the squirm in their mire of self righteusness...

I always point out that if it was not for these techniques my perfect DD would not be around and there would be one less good 'un ... I then usually look pityingly at their kids who you can bet are horrible!!

[suzywong]

what a foul thing to say
how horrid for you Pruni
can't imagine anyone being so unpleasant as to say that to you

[aloha]

Do they think that? I don't know anyone who does. How extraordinarily rude some people are. I can't imagine why, unless they have some bugbear about it being a drain on the NHS or something.

[skeptic]

I don't think it is wrong, but one area that I think I think is troubling for a lot of people is what to do with the remaining frozen embryos if the IVF is successful first time round.

The NHS funding debate also makes it a controversial topic, but similar arguments exist in other areas, such as neonatology and life support for the terminally ill.

[dot1]

I know it's slightly different, but dp and I conceived our two ds's using 'alternative insemination' (i.e. yoghurt pot and syringe) and when I had one of my first ante natal appointments at Northwick Park hospital, the midwife asked me more than once if what we'd done was legal...! She was horrified and at one point looked like she was going to call the police or something..!!

I think some people think it's wrong to mess with mother nature and all that. But of course they're the ones who usually have their 2/3 children and all's gone well. Having tried for 19 months to get pregnant I know I would have tried anything if it hadn't have eventually happened this way.

I think the thing is not to worry about it - our children are here and beautiful and very normal!!

(ah - just realised you wanted 'anti' points of view - sorry!!)

[ghosty]

I just feel incredibly lucky that I didn't have the agony of not being able to conceive naturally. I am personally of the opinion that as I have not experienced the pain of infertility I cannot possibly begin to debate on the rights and wrongs of IVF ...
'there by the grace of god' and all that .......

[Pruni]

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[Pruni]

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[aloha]

I have read studies that show that the children conceived by IVF are extremely well cared for, and tend to do better than average at school. Probably because their parents wanted them so much.

[piffle]

until they've walked in your shoes Pruni... that's all you need to say in return
Honestly some people, what a rude thing to say...

[SenoraPostrophe]

Pruni - I'm really shocked about this too.

I do have very mixed feelings about IVF on the NHS, but I simply don't see how you could translate that into being "against IVF". And even if i was against IVF I wouldn't say so to anyone who'd had it.

some people.

I'd also be insterested to hear other reasons for being aginst though.

[Catbert]

I really hate the drain on the NHS argument. Afterall, all medicine costs a frightening amount of money, and it is all scientific in pricipal. If someone has a heart op, which is an ENORMOUS quantity of money, including the cost of the drugs patients use afterwards, do we say "oooh - no, that person should probably die, because it's unnatural to be able to tinker with his ticker and is a drain on the NHS"...?

Grrrr.

I think IVF is a truly wonderful marvel of modern medicine. So, sorry - doesn't answer your question, cause I don't fall into the anti-camp!

[SenoraPostrophe]

saying "that person should probably die" is hardly the same as saying "that person should remain childless (unless they can come up with the cash)" though, catbert.

[hunkermunker]

How incredibly vile of people to say this to you, Pruni

Quite why some people think they can be SO rude, I have no idea.

Sorry, not an anti point of view, but couldn't leave without saying this!

(DS was conceived on clomid, not the same as IVF, but definitely not without intervention)

[Gobbledigook]

pruni.

I think I can see where people are coming from when they think it's 'wrong' in that they may think nature has it's way of working and if you can't conceive then leave well alone and don't 'play with nature'.

However, you could say that about lots of things like cancer - we don't just let people suffer and die because 'it's nature's way' do we?

Personally I am just eternally and infinitely grateful that I was able to conceive very easily and have no doubt that if I couldn't I'd have gone down the IVF route - I'd have done anything to have my own child I think, however difficult (and boy must it be hard).

For some reason, I have no problem with assisted conception using the sperm and egg of those involved but using others sits a bit uncomfortably with me - I don't know why and perhaps I'd think entirely differently if put in that position myself. I would make no judgement at all of someone who did this - I don't know what it's like to be so desperate for a baby, it must be heart breaking.

I hope this thread doesn't spark a row.

[Pruni]

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[Pruni]

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[misdee]

i am not against IVF, or even IVF on the NHS. what i am against tho is IVF on the NHS when money isnt being spent inother life-saving areas, and when the govt cant get their arses into gear and clean the hospitals up.

i know this will upset some people, but money needs to be spent in the areas that need it most.

and that comment about hearts, ffs!!!

[Mirage]

i was on a waiting list for NHS IVF treatment & it took over 2 years just to get on the list.Then we were told that the funding had all been used up & it would be another year at least before we were even seen.Added to this was the fact that we were entitled to 3 NHS treatments,but if we paid to go private we would lose an NHS treatment for every private one we had!I was 30 when we first started TTC,& 34 when we were accepted onto the waiting list-the way things were I would have been 36 when my appt actually came & the NHS wouldn't treat women over 36.

Luckily,I never needed treatment,but I get very angry with people who assume that you just wake up one day deciding that you want a baby & hey presto,the good old NHS will sort you out.I'd never wish infertility on anyone & never criticise anyone else's choices.

There-rant over.

[tortoiseshell]

Ann Widdecombe is someone who is very anti IVF. I think the reason some people have a problem with it is because you are essentially 'creating' several embryos, and then selecting some to have a chance at life, which some people think is akin to abortion (note they would also be against the morning after pill for the same reason).

I don't think this - dh and I were talking about the moral issue of it, and we concluded that since the embryos can be frozen and then unfrozen, and implanted, they are not the same morally as babies - you can't put an adult in the freezer for years and then take them out and warm them up. So we concluded that the point of 'life' is where it can't be frozen - it has to grow or die.

Very insensitive to say this to your face btw!

[misdee]

and we're a drain on the NHS

[morningpaper]

Just a quickie in between serving guests dinner.

People who think IVF is wrong do so usually from a religious perspective where life begins at conception. This is the default Roman Catholic position.

(Ann Widdecombe is a Roman Catholic.)

That's it really - the idea is that once you have created life, putting it at risk through risky procedures or destroying it because there are excess embryos is wrong.

(Incidentally, in Spain, where there is a strong RC contingent, remaining embryos can and have been legally adopted by couples who have then had them implanted.)

[zebraX]

Before I had children I did feel that IVF... not that it was a wrong choice, but that it could be a foolish thing to do. It's a very grueling ordeal, it has a high rate of failure, personally I would rather just accept that I couldn't have children than go thru IVF. Before I had children, I couldn't help but think that people who would submit themselves to IVF were extremists of some kind.

Now I've had children I can understand only a little bit better. Maybe some of the people you've met gave off that vibe -- not understanding why you wanted a baby so badly, which is different from saying that IVF is a bad thing.

[stitch]

i dont like the idea of using a someone elses eggs or sperm to make a baby. ivf is a wonderful product of science that has given lots of childless people hope.
from a religious point of view i have no qualms whatsoever. but then in islam, a foetus isnt considered a baby till about 120 days into pregnancy. though aboortion isnt acceptable, it isnt forbidden either, assuming medical personnel deem it necessary.
its very rude of people to say this to your face.