I lent my brother £4000 6 years ago.....he still owes just over £3000 - how do I move this forward without falling out with him?

[misspiggy]

Sorry....not exactly the snappiest thread title is it?!

Here's some background. My DB was doing a full time college course back in 2002, something to do with sound engineering. He needed certain equipment for a home studio so I agreed to lend him £4000 as he was up to his eyes credit wise. The agreement was that he would pay back £200 per month.

Unfortunately, the repayments never started properly (he was going to set up a monthly standing order but this didn't materialise). He made a one off payment of £250 but that was all. At the same time I was in the process of moving me and my 2 DSs to a new area to live with DH (who I'd met in 2001)so things were pretty chaotic and it took me a couple of months to realise that we'd had no payments. After a few more months of not receiving anything I stopped asking, thinking he would start repaying once he was in a position to do so.

Moving on to 2005 (still with me?!), DH and my financial position was pretty dire as DH had been out of work for 18 months, horrendous mortgage etc and the debts had piled up so I broached the subject with DB. He was very defensive but managed to pay us £750 straight away from another loan he had taken out and then offered to pay £50 per month. These payments never happened either - "the standing order must have gone wrong", etc etc.

DH and I ended up taking out an IVA as we were in such a state financially. DB is the only person who knows about this (apart from you MNers!)but still, even after I'd told him about the IVA there was still no offer from him as he said he was "always so skint".

Don't get me wrong, I love my DB - he's a great guy and I don't want to fall out with him over money. However, £3000 would make a huge difference to us at the moment. DB is working and DJs at the weekends as well. He borrowed a considerable amount from his dad and has paid that back faithfully so it makes me feel a bit of a mug that he hasn't done the same with me. I know I shouldn't have left this for so long but I really don't know how to approach it again.........I always end up feeling so guilty that I've had to ask him again and then angry which doesn't help matters at all.

Any ideas or advice would be gratefully received. Thanks.

[Tortington]

oi bro - gix the money or i'll kick you in the manjo

[RubySlippers]

well, you have let him get away without paying it for 6 years (i mean that kindly BTW)

i think you need to sit him down, explain VERY clearly what dire straits you are in now and work out a payment plan

then go with him to the bank to set up the Standing Order

£3k is a lot of money

your DB should also have been more proactive in paying it back and not letting things drift either

you shouldn't feel guilty about asking him - he owes YOU!

good luck

[MegBusset]

I lent £1000 to a friend about 8 years ago under similar circumstances and have never had any of it back. TBH I have written it off as to make a big deal of it would damage the friendship.

I think the moral is 'Neither a borrower nor a lender be.' I certainly haven't lent anyone money since.

[RubySlippers]

or you could try Custy's approach

[MadameCastafiore]

What a bastard to see you in such a position and not feel any guilt - I would ask him directly and if he still refuses/defuses see if you can get the loan from your dad and make your brother pay him back, as he actually seems to respect him - your brother has no scruples so you should IMO sink immediatley to his level to obtain your monies.

[MegBusset]

I'm not saying that you shouldn't ask him for the money btw. Just that money and friends/family are a bad combination that rarely ends well!

[Blu]

But getting him to pay is the only way not to fall out!

Just be very straight and direct.

Ask for a meeting with him, tell him that it is now time to be organised and definite about paying the money because you simply cannot afford to be lending it to him any more.

Tell him that because you have debts of your own, you have had to pay out 5% or 7% or whatever in interest because if the money HE owes you.

Tell him that had you all the money in the world you would gladly give him half...but you both know that you are in hard circumstances, so he needs to pay you back.

Be calm and kind but firm and clear.

If you leave it until you have an angry outburst, it will end up hurtful.

He is taking the piss - because you are failing to be clear and direct.

Do it.

[expatinscotland]

I agree completely with Meg.

Unless you have a written contract, best you can do is try to guilt him into paying you back, but as he didn't feel guilty when he knew you were in a bad way previously, I wouldn't count on him doing so now.

[misspiggy]

Thanks everyone!

I know exactly what you mean about leaving it for 6 years Ruby...it makes it even more awkward as it's been so long as I honestly think he has forgotten about it sometimes.

So true about "neither a borrower or a lender be" Meg. He and my mum are coming over for lunch on sunday so I'm trying to get myself together to speak to him about it then, probably just before they're due to go so the whole day isn't ruined but I've just got to get it off my chest.

He doesn't seem to feel guilt Expat (think I had his share instead!). DS1 was 18 in April and I mentioned to DB that I would love to be able to buy DS1 a little run about but that we could only afford to give him a bit of money towards a car.....I don't think the penny dropped at all!

I like what you said about all the money in the world Blu...I think I'll use that on Sun.

If that doesn't work, there's always Custy's method!

[LaTrucha]

There's no way he has forgotten! Only to add that maybe you should give your mother the heads up that you're going to broach the subject so that she can prepare yourself to come to your ad instead of being embarrassed.

[Hecate]

Well, if you want to go to extremes - When they come, have value broken biscuits. Feed them value range everything. Have no milk or coffee in, and only disgusting, own brand tea. Instead of loo rolls, cut some newspaper into little squares and have that in the loo . Be wearing your scruffiest clothes. Have a hole in your socks. have the kids whine "I'm sooooo hungry, mum."

Tell him in front of your mother that you need the money because you are not managing and what he owes you, would enable you to buy enough food and to have the heating on and to have hot water.

[misspiggy]

I spoke to my mum about it a while ago, just after I'd had the conversation with DB about a car for DS1 and she wasn't hugely supportive, except to say that he owes her money too but that she's given up on ever getting it back.

I honestly wish I could afford to forget about it myself but Dh is out of work again ((((bangs head on desk)))) so it makes me angry that we are struggling and DB still owes us this money.

[llareggub]

I think you should shame him into paying it back. You mention that he has faithfully repaid his father: could you mention it to your parents? I would probably take this route and see what happens.

[crokky]

Can you involve your mum and dad? I think it's disgraceful that he has just sat back and watched whilst you got into such a bad financial position knowing he owes you a stack of money.

[posieflump]

did he always know it was a loan and that he was expected to pay it back?
Maybe he thought it was a gift!!
if he owes your mum money and doesn't pay it back he obviously sees the whole faily as a soft touch
I think you are going to have to fall out with him over it, or just let it slide tbh

[LippyGobshite]

lol Hecate

Use water from the hot tap for his tea, make sure he sees you do this. Comb some lard through your hair for that 'can't even afford shampoo' look because even though you're worth it, the kids' don't think it's worth missing another week's food for (you must tell him all this)

The key word in Blu's post is tell

Don't ask him to pay back the money. Suggest a couple of repayment plans for him to choose, have a spreadsheet or a book ready to show him, tell him a standing order is the best bet for his own security, and offer him the opportunity of repaying the whole lot in one go, here are some details of bank loans.

Good luck.

[misspiggy]

DB and I are step brother and sister, mum re-married after my father died, I left home when I was 16 as I didn't get on with my step-father (DB's dad).

He was well aware that the money was a loan as we discussed how much he would re-pay each month so he can't get away with that one!

I'm well aware that he must sound like the worst kind of scrounger - he really is a lovely bloke who everyone loves (both DSs idolise him) but he just seems to have this very self involved side to him. When I spoke to mum about it previously she said "well, that's just DB isn't it?". She worries that he and I will end up on bad terms about it so I don't like to mention it to her.

The more I think about this the angrier I get. There's just so much going on at the moment what with one thing and another that, in one way, it would be easier to let it go but we need this money.

[misspiggy]

So sorry Hecate - missed your post . I like your thinking and am cutting up today's paper into squares as we speak . DH came home with some Mellow Bird's coffee a while ago that's been festering at the back of the cupboard ever since so I may well break that out on Sun!

You're quite right Lippy, I need to get tough with him in a non-confrontational, firm way....after running that lard through my hair first of course! I think he's just finished paying off the loan that was paying back his dad IYSWIM so he should have some flexibility there. If the excuses start I'll ask him why he felt he should pay back his dad but not me and hopefully that will hit home.

[Blu]

"have value broken biscuits. Feed them value range everything. Have no milk or coffee in, and only disgusting, own brand tea. Instead of loo rolls, cut some newspaper into little squares and have that in the loo . Be wearing your scruffiest clothes. Have a hole in your socks. have the kids whine "I'm sooooo hungry, mum."" "Comb some lard through your hair for that 'can't even afford shampoo' look "

LOL. None of that will work. HE IS A MUSICIAN.

MissPiggy - he has no conscience, he is thick skined - he can cope with being told straight. It's YOU that has the problem with this, not him.

Just do it. You will b fine. You will feel v proud and strong, AND you will teach him a important lesson.It is not good f him to have all his relatives letting hi get away wih lax money management like this, and in effect be a feckless cheating git. You are doin this to him - it's called 'enabling', and it's more damaging than telling him straight. 'Straight' doesn't mean unpleasantl, but it does mean directly and clearly. Practise in advance. Get your DH to practice with you

[Earlybird]

Agree completely with direct approach suggested by Blu and rubyslippers.

Also think you should do as rubyslippers suggests - accompany him to the bank to set up a monthly standing order for an amount he can 'afford' per month. Otherwise, you'll probably end up with a load more excuses/awkwardness and the money will never appear.

Standing Order is essentially putting him on a 'payment plan' rather than asking/expecting/hoping for the entire amount in one go (which obviously isn't going to happen).

[ilovemydog]

How does it work with an IVA? Even of your brother does pay money back, doesn't it go to administrators?

[swedishmum]

Dh lent bil about 5k 3 or 4 years ago against my better judgement. We'll never get the whole of it back. Winds me up that bil has seen fit to get a factory edn mini cooper while still owing us the money. Bil is 43 and a totally brainless numbskull who will never amount to anything. Sadly dh's family have a history of supporting idiot members. I'm short of cash while twonk of a bil buys crappy designer jeans.
I really feel for you - I know it's hard to do but you need to demand the money back.