What is the matter with these men? (Not funny)

[Janh]

Another one who killed most of the family and then jumped off a bridge - left the baby in the car this time

BBC

[dinosaur]

Oh that is just heartbreaking.

This seems all too common! I agree with you Janh - what is the matter with these men?

[lilibet]

there seems to be a case like this every week at the moment. They are all so sad, but what on earth makes the men do it?
I don't think that I have ever seen a similar case with a woman, has anyone else?


btw Janh, thanks for the cheque

[Northerner]

God only knows Jan.

Makes my blood go cold reading this. Tragic.

[emmatmg]

[Kayleigh]

Oh god, that poor baby.

How could anyone do that two those beautiful little girls.

Awful, just awful.

[handlemecarefully]

Is there a word for women who don't like men ?(the equivalent of mysogny) because I know its not very pc, but I am increasingly finding myself in that category

[lydialemon]

Not excusing the bloke at all, but I remember a program about this a couple of years ago. The explanation they came up with was that, in the fathers irrationality leading up to the suicide, they truly believed the family would be better off with them, than being left behind. So, they do it because they love them.......bit scarey I think

There does seem to be an awful lot lately though.

[fio2]

god how awful they all looked so lovely, what a waste. I really never understand men like this

[aloha]

The men are often violent to their wives - often with a long history. They believe they own their wives and their children, and I think they like the power they can exercise over them. And what is the greatest power of all? That of life or death.

[Nicksie]

Message withdrawn

[WideWebWitch]

Awful.

[Tom]

Horrible.

It's called "misandry" when you hate men.

And it's not just men who do this.

What's wrong with anyone who can even hurt a child - I've no idea.

[handlemecarefully]

Tom,

On dispassionate reflection, I'm not ready to be a 'misandrist' yet - and I apologise for my prejudices. I really must do better since I am about to bring a baby son into this world, and I don't want to raise him with a complex about his gender!

[dinosaur]

But there don't seem to be many stories about women killing their former partners and their children?

[Twinkie]

Was a cutting edge about a guy who did this ages ago and I think a thread too - all his friends forgave him as well as his wives family (he slaughtered his wife, their 3 kids and then killed himself) - everyone said it was completely unlike him and he must have just flipped - it was all done so coldly and calculated though - not like someone who had flipped - mind you if it was mental illness and I believe that not everyone of the men can have just been evil to the core maybe we should at least try to understand it no matter how abhorent we find it.

[Tom]

A possible reason (please note: not excuse - reason) is that because 96% of post separation residence orders are granted to women, there simply aren't many women driven insane by lack of contact with their children - maybe?

[eddm]

Aloha's right ? often triggered by wife leaving them or belief that wife is having an affair.

[dinosaur]

But if my DH left me and got residence for the kids, then whilst I might entertain murderous thoughts towards him, or suicidal thoughts myself, I cannot imagine how I could ever take it out on my kids. I just cannot imagine it.

[eddm]

Tom, something like 5,000 women have been wrongly separated from their children by the family courts system ? see the Roy Meadows thread ? and yet none of them has physically attacked the social workers or lawyers involved, let alone their children. And that's not just for practical reasons as some women do have contact visits. But I've never heard of a woman using a contact visit for violence, whereas sadly there are cases of men using these visits to attack or kill their former partners and kids. It's about power. Some men need to dominate and control their wives and children and hate the thought that their familes might escape them. In extreme cases this leads to murder.

[Tom]

Nice to hear handlemecarefully...

The last thing a boy needs is a mum who hates men. They need people who respect men and women equally and on merit.

Did you know that boys and girls who grow up with highly involved fathers or father figures have much more equal views about men and women?

[Tom]

Quite agree eddm, although there is a level of misery, frustration and despair among separated fathers that I don't think you'll ever grasp.

Nothing excuses violence and control though, and in many of these cases, the violence started well before the separation.

[Twinkie]

Tom - I have been through 14 months of being seperated from my DD and I did contemplate suicide more than once believe me but would not have harmed a hair on my daughters head - these men if they are doing it for the reason you say are heartless awful bastards - if they are mentally ill I understand to a degree but I have lived with the sepeartion, the unfairness and the utter despair and not once would I have raised a hand to my DD let alone killed her.

I did not kill myself because I thought that would be even more detrimental to my daughetr than being seperated from me - but killing her???

As for the last 3 cases where the man has killed there spouse that I have heard of none of the men were seperated or divorced or thought there wives were having an affair.

And if you loked into the statistics I am sure that your reasoning would not add up - there are countless women in this country that are in despair at being seperated from their children (my sister is one of them) and I know that she would not dream of harming her child or think that taking them with them to a better place would be preferential to letting them be alive.

Sorry but I do think jumping on the 'Families need Fathers' bandwagon here is a bit lame when talking about this emotive issue.

[eddm]

Oh Tom, I am capable of sympathy for separated fathers (my parents divorced when I was 8) but this thread was about men who kill their families.

[dinosaur]

As for regarding it as a possible reason - that's a pretty terrifying scenario for any woman who is trying to pluck up the courage to leave her violent/abusive partner or husband, isn't it

[Tom]

I quite agree - terrifying.
At the risk of it blowing up in my face, which it usually does, let me try to clarify what I mean.

I think that men who are seriously unhinged, violent, abusive etc etc, and perhaps have ideas about men controlling women, can be tipped into this kind of behaviour by feelings of loss of control - the only control left them is over life/death.

Clearly it's the result of some kind of serious psychiatric disorder - hardly the actions of reasonable men. But there is a correlation between these kinds of events and breakdown of the relationship/loss of family that needs to be picked up on - it is a contributing factor, no?

All the more reason for secret and secure refuges for victims of dom violence and tough penalties for perpetrators, men or women, imo.