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Pick me up, dust me off and stand me up again... please

(40 Posts)
salt Wed 28-Jan-04 14:34:19

Well this'll probably just turn into a self-pitying whinge as that's all I seem to do these days but I don't have the will to pick myself up this time.

xp is giving me hell again and I just can't take it anymore. I can't afford a solicitor as I'm not entitled to legal aid. I can't call the police as it's not frequent enough to be harrassment anymore.

After a huge row 3 weeks ago I went to his parents and told them some of the stuff but not all... apparently I'm just as bad as him?!?!? WTF!!! I don't stand on anyones doorstep at 7:45am calling htem a f*cking c*nt

I feel like he has me over a barrel and I'm getting to the point where I just want to stop his contact with dd, partly out of spite but also then he will have no reason to contact me - that's awful isn't it(?) but if I thought I could get away with it I would.

Add this to the fact that my job is rubbish, I'm permanently knackered and haven't been sleeping well/at all lately and I'm just about done in. If I weren't at my desk I'd be crying.

Please someone drag me up again...

motherinferior Wed 28-Jan-04 14:37:59

I am sending you lots and lots of e-hugs, my love.

aloha Wed 28-Jan-04 14:41:54

If he's outside your house shouting, definitely call the police. Would you tolerate this from a stranger? I would call the police every time. It is threatening behaviour and a breach of the peace and all sorts. If you are in fear of him you can get an injuction via the police. Talk to the domestic violence unit and ham it up a bit if necessary. He sounds absolutely DREADFUL and you shouldn't have to put up with it. You can get away with not letting him see your dd - there is very little the courts can or will do about it, but you have to think about whether that is in her interest. I can certainly see the temptation.

Janstar Wed 28-Jan-04 14:51:20

Hi Salt.

I've been where you're standing and so have many other mumsnetters, in fact some of them are still there. All I can say to you is that it *will* get better, just hang in there. Getting through this may be the toughest thing you ever have to do. I remember when I split with ex I was doing 2 jobs just to try and pay off all the debts he had managed to incur in my name, as well as looking after dds with no help financial or practical from him, and him on the phone every day alternating abuse and pleas to come back.

It took me years to pay off the debts and get on my feet. It was a horrible tough test and I spent many nights with my head in my hands wondering how I was going to survive.

But women like you do survive, salt. When they have used up every last bit of energy and enthusiasm they have they find a little bit more in that reserve tank that you build in for your kids.

And once you have got through the toughest times, you will be stronger and wiser than ever before, and better equipped for the rest of your life ahead of you. One day your kids will understand what you did for them and they will love you so much for it.

You may be stuck in a job that's rubbish now, but that won't always be the case. Think about what you would like to do - you're a free agent now and whilst your time is not yet your own, you are free to think about what you would really like for yourself and make a long-term plan to get yourself there.

As for your ex on the doorstep hurling abuse - well how messed up is he? It isn't pleasant for you, but you have dignity and he is making a fool of himself, I can't see him keeping that up for long.

I wouldn't expect his parents to help - parents tend to side with their own, right or wrong. I do think he will tire of this, though.

You are a jewel waiting to shine. Just hang in there and lean on us mumsnetters for support. Your day will come.

salt Wed 28-Jan-04 14:51:38

I feel like stopping him seeing her and then letting him take me to court if need be and worrying about the cost after that.

It would definitely be in her best interests not to see him (IMO) but I don't think the courts will see it like that.

The shouting was a morning when he was picking my dd up (in front of her he uses this language).

He is on her birth certificate but doesn't have parental responsibility, if I moved far away (to get away from him) could he stop me?

I just wihs he'd go that step too far and blow it for himself well and truly - beat me up again or something but he's too clever for that!

salt Wed 28-Jan-04 14:54:01

Thanks Janster - posts crossed.

Your post was lovely but this has been going on for over a year now, how much longer before he gets bored? months will go by and he;s fine then all of a sudden something will trigger him off.

Janstar Wed 28-Jan-04 15:02:51

You can move where you like. He only gets parental responsibility if a court grants it to him. I often think I should have moved away when I was in your position.

BTW parental responsibility will only give him the right to know where you are living, and to see school reports and stuff. It's not a major thing really but let him ask for it in court if he wants it.

My ex was so awful the judge wouldn't even give him that much!

I would say, yes, let him start it if he wants to go to court. That puts the burden of costs mainly on him. The fact that you are forced to appear might help you get legal aid.

At the moment you have all the control and all the rights and you keep the upper hand until such time as he might go to court.

salt Wed 28-Jan-04 15:10:02

Janstar,

He is quite an intelligent man and has told me that if he gets Parental REsponsibility he can stop me sending her to a school that I choose and he can stop me moving and taking her on holiday abroad... he has told me that he will use it to do these things as well just so that I can not make any decisions. Do you know if what he says is true?

I have had free legal sessions with solicitors in the past but honestly I only found one who seemed on my side and I couldn't afford her.

Even when he's not abusive it's his tone of voice and his attitude... he ALWAYS hangs up on me before I have a chance to say anything, I am so furious I even find it hard to be civil to his parents these days. They make me sick supporting him... Apparently I'm a bad mother and when they have all the relevant information they are going to fight me for custody.

aloha Wed 28-Jan-04 15:19:15

Salt, you poor thing. I really want to reassure you though. PR does not grant him the right to do ANY of those things. He's talking absolute rubbish and feel free to tell him so. I do know what I'm talking about as my dh went to court to get PR for his daughter. While a person with PR has certain entitlements, such as the right to see school reports, it does not give him the right to interfere with the reasonable choices of the person with care and control of the child - ie you. Even if you were planning to...oh, I don't know...have your child home educated by a coven of witches, he would still have to go to court to try to prevent you. The whole set up legally is that as you are the parent the child lives with you have to make decisions and he does not have the legal right to interfere in them. He most definitely cannot stop you moving or taking your dd on holiday - that's just rubbish he's coming out with to upset and frighten you. If he hangs up on you, then don't call him and don't take his calls. Insist he only writes to you. You don't HAVE to take his calls you know. And I would personally also stop communicating with his parents. As you said, they only support him against you so don't sully your mind by even thinking of them. Please, please don't let him intimidate you with his lies and disgusting behaviour. I promise you that what I say is true.

aloha Wed 28-Jan-04 15:21:32

Salt, you poor thing. I really want to reassure you though. PR does not grant him the right to do ANY of those things. He's talking absolute rubbish and feel free to tell him so. I do know what I'm talking about as my dh went to court to get PR for his daughter. While a person with PR has certain entitlements, such as the right to see school reports, it does not give him the right to interfere with the reasonable choices of the person with care and control of the child - ie you. Even if you were planning to...oh, I don't know...have your child home educated by a coven of witches, he would still have to go to court to try to prevent you. The whole set up legally is that as you are the parent the child lives with you have to make decisions and he does not have the legal right to interfere in them. He most definitely cannot stop you moving or taking your dd on holiday - that's just rubbish he's coming out with to upset and frighten you. If he hangs up on you, then don't call him and don't take his calls. Insist he only writes to you. You don't HAVE to take his calls you know. And I would personally also stop communicating with his parents. As you said, they only support him against you so don't sully your mind by even thinking of them. Please, please don't let him intimidate you with his lies and disgusting behaviour. I promise you that what I say is true.

aloha Wed 28-Jan-04 15:22:38

Have a look at this:
"When considering an application by an unmarried father the court will have to consider whether it is in the child's best interest for the father to have parental responsibility. It will be necessary to satisfy the court that the applicant is the father of the child before an order granting him parental resonsibility can be made.
The court will consider evidence of commitment by the unmarried father to the child, evidence of a degree of attachment between the father and the child and the father's reason for applying for the order when dealing with such an application. The lack of a responsible attitude towards the child or evidence that the exercise of parental responsiblity will be used to interfere with or undermine the mother's care of the child may result in the court refusing to make a parental responsibility order. "
If you can somehow persuade him to put what he said in writing, you could probably prevent him having a PR order at all!

Janstar Wed 28-Jan-04 15:23:57

What 'relevant information'? It sounds to me as if he is trying to bully and intimidate you. He sounds very like my ex, a bully and control freak. Why hasn't he started these proceedings if he really means to? And what court is going to grant him custody when your child is perfectly safe and well with her mum?

Parental responsibility doesn't give him the right to dictate any of these things. It merely gives him the right to have a say.

What a lovely man he sounds! He wants to overrule your choice of school - does he even know which school you are thinking of or is this just spite? Where does what is best for your dd come into his thinking?

I do know how you feel. My ex wanted me to take my dd to a school 1/2 hour's drive away, which cost £650 a term, whilst paying me nothing and doing nothing to help. I wonder how he thought I was going to get a job to pay for it all, and which would allow me the time I needed to drive her there and back. Ridiculous. He obviously just wanted to make me feel I was a bad mother for sending dd to the state primary school at the end of my road. I did the sensible thing and completely ignored him.

Does your ex pay child support? I used to put up with all kinds of s**t from my ex but when he did something really bad I used my trump card threatening him with the CSA and he always backed down when I did that.

salt Wed 28-Jan-04 15:27:06

Aloha, his parents help with my childcare. I've wanted to stop this for a while and around November time I suggested to them that from Easter I wanted her to go to Nursery instead. His mum was trying to talk me out of it but I didn't give in. Now though I feel that they will think I'm doing it out of spite (I'm not) well maybe deep down a little.

I don't call him back and as of today I am going to request that he has no contact with me and that his parents must call on his behalf. I have already (after said shouting incident) told him that if he comes down my road again I will call the police immediately. He knows what this means as they have cautioned him once already.

Sometimes I have to call him back as I HAVE to tell him something about dd arrangements but he winds me up SO much I just want to tear his head off. I feel like if I don't keep him away from me I will lash out and he would love that... everytime I see him this rage just bubbles up and I just want to attack him - I don't mean hit him, I mean tear his limbs off and gauge his eyes out...

I failed the psychopath test (btw)

salt Wed 28-Jan-04 15:29:09

Janstar - I called the CSA months ago. Still nothing, I chase them and chase them... they are truly appauling

Janstar Wed 28-Jan-04 15:30:56

Think of him as a poor deluded w****r who needs to be humoured. He doesn't, but I used to find giving myself a mental standpoint like this helped me loads to stay cool when he was around.

salt Wed 28-Jan-04 15:34:58

That's what I normally do...

...I even used to laugh at him and to the rest of the world that is what I still do and that is what I tell other people to do when giving advice

...but he is/has worn me down and I feel like giving up. Guess everyone else is just made of harder stuff and that makes me feel even more rubbish.

StressyHead Wed 28-Jan-04 15:36:35

message withdrawn

aloha Wed 28-Jan-04 15:38:20

Salt, who cares what they think? They don't sound like they've been supportive to you at all. If you can afford it and it wouldn't distress your dd, then I would definitely change. He will not get residence of your daughter. No way. It won't happen. The courts NEVER take happy healthy children from their mothers and give them to their fathers. It doesn't happen.
If he gets a PR order, then I suggest you get a residence order for yourself at the same time. You can even represent yourself. A residence order gives you certain rights, such as the right to take your dd out of the country for long periods without your ex's consent. All you would have to do is tell the court what your ex has told you, that he intends to abuse the PR order to cause you distress and to try to prevent you taking your daughter on holiday. His attitude is outrageous and vindictive. However, he does not have you over a barrel. Because your dd lives with you can make all the decisions about her welfare and if he doens't like them(and has a PRO) he can try taking you to court and see how far it gets him. How old is your dd and what contact does he have at present? How does your dd feel about contact and her grandparents?

StressyHead Wed 28-Jan-04 15:40:21

message withdrawn

aloha Wed 28-Jan-04 15:40:30

Salt, you are being bullied by a nasty piece of work but don't ever let him make you feel as bad as this! Remember, his threats are empty ones and if he shouts at you or threatens you, call the police. Put the phone down if he calls. Don't let him invade your life.

salt Wed 28-Jan-04 15:46:29

She's 19 months, 5 months when we split. To start with he was having her over night every other weekend but after abduction threats and a lot of abuse he now only has her 3hours every other weekend.

He has just called to apologise for what happened today (the trigger for this post) but I don't want to post details about it. I told him that he is not to call me anymore and that if he wants to speak to me contact must be made through his parents.

I don't want to stop them seeing my dd they are old and nice enough people and I understand them in backing their son and until the said incident a few weeks ago I had a fairly good relationship with them. Now that has changed and I find it hard to be civil to them even though they are always very polite to me.

aloha Wed 28-Jan-04 16:08:16

Yes, I think it is fine for parents to support their son emotionally, but to tell you that you are a bad mother and they will try to take your child away...that is so extreme and wrong that I do think they should apologise and retract that if they want to have any kind of relationship with you and their granddaughter. It is an EXTREMELY hostile thing to say and I think that you must have a very forgiving nature even to speak to them after that. If he's threatened to abduct her that would also damage his chances of getting a PR Order. Did you take that seriously? Where does she spend the three hours of contact? Does he see her at his parents house while they are caring for her?

salt Wed 28-Jan-04 16:18:05

Yes aloha, it is registered with the police and the useful solicitor I saw said that there was enough evidence to stop him seeing her entirely and certainly to get him supervised visits only (at a special centre) but I didn't want that for dd.

It's only his word that they've said that about me.

She sees him at his parents house and I've told him that if ever I don't know exactly where he is with her I will call the police immediately.

Sorry I'm probably jumping all over the place. With my thoughts, I have so much going on and would really like to talk about it all but don't know where to start so I just jump around telling people bits and pieces and nobody ever really knows anything.

I have to go home now and don't have internet at home but

motherinferior
aloha
janstar
stressyhead

thank you so much for your time today, you've really helped me, even just getting some of it off my chest. thank you xxx

Thomcat Wed 28-Jan-04 16:20:59

SALT - I wish I had some great words of comfort, advice anything. I just want to say keep fighting girl, don't let the b*****d break you, keep strong for you and your dd and just to show him your stronger and better than him. One day it'll be okay and hopefully that day will come soon. I'd normally advise a glass of wine but in this case don't - join a kick boxing class imagine it's him your're kicking and get angry. don't let him grind you down until your too weak to take it. Put those shoulders back, hold that head up and go get him girl.
Wishing you strength and sending you love - Thomcat xx

aloha Wed 28-Jan-04 16:29:50

If I catch you before you go, I'd say that his parents almost certainly did say that. He's a nasty liar and I bet he's lying about that to upset you. Have a lovely evening doing what you like to do - a bubbly bath, some rubbish telly, glass of wine, good book - whatever. You'll feel stronger tomorrow. Sending you love and PMA (positive mental attitude (copyright SB34!)

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