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Don't know what to do any more.

(30 Posts)
waterproofraincoat Wed 17-May-06 10:14:45

I'm hiding under a thin disguise just in case anyone is checking.

I have two DDs, 16 and 14. I split with their father when they were very small. Several years later I found out their father's GF was working as a prostitute, he was making hardcore porn films with her and selling them on the internet, and they had several porn websites too. I discovered this from my eldest DD. He sent her several emails when she was 11 years old inviting her to look at his websites and she had done, in all innocence. She kept this a secret from me till she was 13. After she told me I restricted contact to supervised meetings in public places such as restaurants. He then took us to court. Defending this complicated case cost us £10,000 and caused enormous stress. The court decided that he should have no contact at all, and did not even grant parental responsibility.

My eldest DD became ill, suffered from stress and depression, fits of fainting and vomiting, and took an overdose at one point. I attribute this to the trauma of the court proceedings etc.

Three years later, my eldest DD has been enormously difficult and has dropped out of school and left home. She is living in a hostel. Immediately after leaving she resumed contact with her father.

She has told me that already she has been introduced to all his 'escort friends' who are 'very open about what they do for the money'. She thinks this is refreshingly honest, but I see it as her father trying to make her think this is normal, a kind of grooming. He has offered her a flat to live in which would mean leaving her job, suspect if she were to take him up on it he would find her a job IYSWIM.

I'm unable to protect her any more. However my other DD is now being attacked. DD1 keeps phoning her and telling her how great it is at dad's, how much money he has, how much he misses her. DD2 is very naive, innocent and easily led. All this is making her feel upset and confused. She even feels guilty for making her father feel bad. I've explained and explained that it isn't her fault, but she's hurting inside.

I received a letter from her father early this week saying that he plans to go back to court to try and overturn the court order and resume contact with her. Obviously I have contacted my solicitor. I'm waiting for his advice.

In the meantime I've talked to DD1 and asked her not to phone here from her father's house or talk about him with DD2. But I've just found out that last night DD2 was contacted on msn by her father's GF's daughter who passed on his phone number. She was then silly enough to call him.

I've confiscated her mobile and grounded her. I'm at my wits' end wondering how the hell I can protect her. Help.

expatinscotland Wed 17-May-06 10:19:14

I think the police and social services need to be involved ASAP!

In fact I would get off of MN and ring social services NOW.

We are talking about a MINOR being groomed by a pervert here. Very, very serious.

If he's going to court, you need as much paperwork and records as possible.

I would also phone your GP and bring your daughter in for a referral for counselling.

Again, you are already laying the groundwork for your case by doing all these things using official channels - there will be a record of your actions admissable in court.

Log EVERY contact he and DD1 have w/her. All of it. Save the MSN conversations - print them out - if you can keep a record of the texts as well.

pepperpots Wed 17-May-06 10:20:04

this could sound very far fetched but is there no way you can get an injunction out on him? To me in all honesty sounds like he is grooming her And to a teenager the idea of lots of money is very appealing. Is any of what he is doing legal?

expatinscotland Wed 17-May-06 10:20:14

Keep a log of EVERYONE you contact regarding this issue. For example, when you ring Social Services, make a note of the time and whom you spoke with.

spacedonkey Wed 17-May-06 10:25:03

I agree, contact the police and social services and see your GP for a referral to a counselling service or some such. I am going through something vaguely similar with my daughter right now and although I am logging MSN conversations the police have told me this would not be admissable evidence, so it is worth checking this out and getting advice (I don't know what constitutes admissable evidence of "grooming" but am in process of finding out).

Awful, awful, complex situation you are in, I'm so sorry

Blu Wed 17-May-06 10:27:21

Oh lord, how awful this is.
I know nothing about these things, but I can see why this is all so horrible. Given the court order, and the reason it was made, have Social Services ever been involved? they might have some advice?

The order prohibitying ex having contact with DD2 is still inplace, right? And he is breaking it? I would have thought that that would jeopardise his chances of getting the order overturned.

I REALLY hope your solicitor can help.

awful for you, frightening and painful in so very many ways, and I'm so so sorry - you don't deserve this.

spacedonkey Wed 17-May-06 10:28:42

It sounds like he is using DD1 (and XH's GF's daughter?) as the go-between so he doesn't directly violate the injunction?

Bugsy2 Wed 17-May-06 10:29:35

Been following your issues for a while. I think this is really tough. You could take this further with social services or through the courts but I'm not sure it will stop the contact with your daughters.
I'm wondering whether it wouldn't be better to try & find a hooker rehab centre (if such a thing exists) & take the girls to see what the situation can be like for some "working" girls.
Really feel for you.

expatinscotland Wed 17-May-06 10:42:48

as your daughter is over 16, you could also get an injunction against her to limit contact w/your minor daughter.

waterproofraincoat Wed 17-May-06 10:44:44

I've just been talking to DD1 on the phone, and come back to find all these messages, thank you so much!

Absolutely right, SD, he hasn't directly contacted her so I don't know if technically he has broken the court order. However it's quite obvious he has used DD1 and his GF's daughter to get at DD2 and I know the court will not look favourably on this.

Whether evidence is admissible isn't really a problem, it's a family court not a criminal one. So I think they would consider any form of evidence.

I hadn't thought of police or social services. My eldest DD is going to carry on seeing him no matter what, since she doesn't live here any more I have to accept that. I'm worried about her, obviously, but there isn't much I can do about it except keep warning her and making sure I don't fall out with her so she knows I am here. She is old beyond her years and so far seems to be coping well with it all (though I heartily wish she hadn't put herself in this position).

DD2 is my first priority. I'm still awaiting my solicitor's advice and will mention social services and police and see what he says.

spacedonkey Wed 17-May-06 10:45:11

I was just thinking the same thing, painful though it would be, you might have to to protect dd2

spacedonkey Wed 17-May-06 10:45:52

good luck wprc x

batters Wed 17-May-06 11:08:24

This is just all so horrendous, wprc . I think spacedonkey's advice is very good.

It is awful all 3 of you are going through this.

Kathlean Wed 17-May-06 12:27:05

Have you told her the truth? Do you have any of the paperwork from the original court stuff? Don't say anything insulting about her father just show her the facts.

If you come down too harsh you may push her away to her father as she can hear how well he is treating her sister.

I think at 14 if you sit her down and tell her why you are so worried for her sister, what you think may happen as a result of this contact and let her see any stuff you have she should be old enough to understand.

I hope it all works out for you.

waterproofraincoat Wed 17-May-06 13:54:50

She does know the truth, she had to be told three years ago when he took us to court the first time.

I can't show her much of the details. I'm afraid it is very hardcore and the first time I saw some of it it made me so ill I couldn't eat for four days. It's what I'm trying to protect her from, so I can't really show it to her.

My solicitor has contacted me and wants to meet up to discuss this in detail. It sounds from what he is saying as if the court order is being broken by the contact with DD1, technically anyway.

wannaBe1974 Wed 17-May-06 14:28:35

I can understand your reluctance to show your dd what her father is involved in, but tbh I think that if she doesn’t find out from you, then there is still every chance that she will make more contact with her father and will get to see it anyway. As vulgar as all this is, I think that by showing her, at least some of the stuff that isn’t the worst of what is available, you might be able to open her eyes to what your ex is doing for his money, without him being able to get in there first and glammerise it. Can you speak to the police and get a child protection officer to come out and talk to your dd2 about what is involved here, these types of people are specially trained and have the skills to be able to talk to children in ways that we as parents often can’t or don’t know how.

I do think that it would be unwise to ground your dd and take away her phone, I totally appreciate your reasons for doing so, but by taking away her phone etc it’s possible you will cause your dd to go further behind your back to communicate with your ex, I thik it’s important to kee her on side, as this will increase your chances of being able to get through to her. Good luck xx

wannaBe1974 Wed 17-May-06 14:31:26

As an aside, you said that your ex’s gf was working as a prostitute, is this still the case? If so is it possible that your ex is acting as her pimp? If so he is committing an illegal offence and this might be able to be flagged up to the police. Also it might be worth speaking to social services about his gf’s daughter, as if she’s under 16, or has been while they’ve been making these films etc, she might have been exposed, or possibly even abused and this should be investigated both by the police and social services. I know that your ex’s gf’s child is not your responsibility, but by flagging her up to ss/the police, they may be able to find the evidence you are unable to provide.

waterproofraincoat Wed 17-May-06 14:49:56

Hi wannabe and thanks for your posts. They have four children at home, two from her previous relationship and two together and I dread to think what life is like for them. When we went to court the first time I did inform the police but they said no offence had been committed.

I have already told my daughter that they made a series of hardcore porn movies one a month throughout one of ex's GF's pregnancies, this I see as a form of child abuse and hate to think how this child will feel if he ever finds out when he is older. Short of actually showing her the trailers for these films I don't know what more I can tell her. I thought long and hard before telling her about this but thought it might help her to see the reality, but it didn't stop her phoning him

Marina Wed 17-May-06 14:54:28

Am appalled at this latest turn of events WPRC. I think you have had some great advice here. Just wanted you to know that even when they can't contribute anything useful your Mn friends are thinking of you XXX

Bozza Wed 17-May-06 14:56:17

The trouble is she is 14, she probably thinks she is mature and can handle this, make her own decisions etc. Unfortunately you and the rest of us know this is not the case.

tigermoth Thu 18-May-06 07:55:55

really sorry this situation is escalating and hope the police or social services can do something. I can't believe your ex has not broken any laws - there must be something you can get him on Police involvement would un-glamourise his life no end and might help your daughter's wake up to the reality.

Is there any way you can plan for your dd2 to be away for the summer holidays? somewhere safe, some major distraction - a big family summer holiday somewhere adventurous, or a summer camp of some kind or an exciting work student attachment (if she is old enough) - somthing she will really look forward to and take her mind away from her father.

May not be the most realistic suggestion, but just throwing this in as a thought.

waterproofraincoat Thu 18-May-06 08:36:38

Thank you for your messages.

Had a big talk with DD2 last night. She went into her 'defence' mode where she blanks us. We questioned her until we had got every detail out of her. We had to come on a bit heavy with her and stress the seriousness of the breach of the court order.

I think she started off believing we were preventing her from meeting him because we don't like him, but by the end we had got her to understand that while we indeed do not like him, we did not create this situation, and while we do agree with the court order, it is still not our decision and we must obey the law. I think she is beginning to see that DH and I haven't had any choice but to ban phone calls etc. So while she still feels sad, she has stopped blaming us.

My DH was magnificent, really firm in the face of all this trouble for someone who left her to him to bring up in every way. She said a couple of quite nasty things to him but he didn't hold it against her and at the end when she was beginning to accept that she has to obey the court order we both gave her a big hug and DH told her how much he loves her.

She thinks her father has changed, this is all based on what DD1 has said to her. So we said, we'd love it if he had changed but unfortunately he didn't seem any different to us, he didn't respect the court order and go through the proper channels, he's still making money in the porn industry, he has introduced your sister to a lot of prostitutes, he's twisting your emotions and causing you to go behind our back. All the same if you're right, the court will overturn the court order and you'll be able to see him. All we will do is go to court and tell the truth, that's all we can do.

So she has accepted that we didn't cause it all, at least. Poor little thing is so confused. I'd like to organise some counselling for her but I don't know where to start and I don't know if she'd accept it.

PinkKerPlink Thu 18-May-06 08:42:33

oh waterporrfraincoat sorry i missed this. You are vbeing incredibly sensible and brave as usual, just offering you my arm of friendship to let you know I am here if you need a sounding board x

PinkKerPlink Thu 18-May-06 08:42:43

oh Im fio, if you didnt know

noddyholder Thu 18-May-06 08:48:51

People who say porn is harmless fun should read this It is affecting so many people in a negative way while the perpetrator is raking in the money.Horrendous I really feel for you and your kids but agree with expat this is a case for ss and the police What sort of a person tries to embroil their kids in this filth Thank god they have you

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