I'm really, really cross with nursery, please come and help me get my thoughts in order before I speak to the manager tomorrow.

[TAFKAtheUrbanDryad]

Ds has been potty training for just over a week. Last week I sent him in in pants, as he was doing so well at home, but it generated a LOT of washing for me (he was having 5-6 accidents at nursery, so I would have 5-6 pairs of pants to wash + trousers) so I this week I've sent him in pull-ups, which is not ideal but I can live with. Both today and yesterday he has come home in a nappy, which has been soiled.

I know that he has better control than that - I do accept that accidents are going to happen, but when he's at home he manages to use the potty 80% of the time, and he's getting better. The only time I use pull-ups are in the car, for a journey of more than half an hour.

Nursery know that ds has very sensitive skin, and that if he isn't changed out of a soiled nappy straight away he gets very sore. They keep asking for metanium to slather on him - which does work - but it shouldn't be necessary if they would just change him out of a soiled nappy/pull-up ASAP.

In addition to the nappy/potty training issues, ds has been having issues with another boy in his room. I think they are friends, but - as is very common with dc of this age - they tend to bounce off each other. Yesterday, ds came home with a massive bite mark on his cheek, and I had to sign an accident form which said that the assistants in the room hadn't noticed what had happened, and ds hadn't seemed upset. Well, it's a massive mark, and still marked this evening, so I find it very difficult to believe that ds made no reaction at all. He also had a bite mark on his arm, which was because he had been bitten after he snatched a toy off another child.

Now, I know that kids bite, and these things happen. I'm not stressing over this - and if it's not ds this week, it will be next week IYSWIM. But, he's come home today with another bite mark on his other arm, and no accident form, and no-one seems to have noticed. I'm really, really cross about this - I'm not a precious parent who freaks out every time their baby is damaged. I've been very understanding when ds has come home with quite severe injuries (bites) in the past, and although they haven't told me who's done it, it seems to be 2 specific children from what ds says. I'm very worried that the nursery assistants don't seem to be noticing if ds is being bitten, not because I'm particularly worried about the bites per se (although obviously I'm sad for ds) but because if the children who are biting aren't being pulled up for it then they're going to keep doing it, aren't they?

I really need to get my thoughts in order before I phone the manager tomorrow, I'm not going to put a formal complaint in, or anything like that - but I need to figure out exactly what I want to happen and how I'm going to achieve it.

Sorry it's so long - must go and finish cooking tea now, but will check back later. TIA!

[colditz]

I'd actually go nuts. So I can't bring you to calm down land at all, sorry!

[nickschick]

I agree that this turn of events isnt acceptable and I think you should address your concerns clearly, initially by pointing out that ds has a medical need to be frequently toileted,whilst I accept metanium is an excellent remedy the total solution is to avoid the cause.

whilst he is toilet training he needs frequent reminding that toileting may be needed and whilst wet and poopy pants are horrible thats how you train a child,having said that I think a child 'ready' for toilet training would be very unhappy in a dirty pull up- so could it be that your ds has an upset tummy? isnt quite ready? or is too interested in what he is doing?(in essence are you 'sure' he is ready?)

The biting is wrong children do bite ,but staff are there to ensure your childs safety and promote a safe environment for him to be in,ignorance is not an excuse- how can they even admit they didnt notice as a qualified NNNEB I would be deeply ashamed to say a child in my care had been bit and i hadnt noticed.

Clearly the nursery needs to step up the care they offer your ds and I dont think its unreasonable of you to ask this of them.

[jelliebelly]

On the potty training side of things, are you sure he is ready? - if he isn't telling the staff that he's done a poo, does he actually know he's done one? if not, he may not be ready - how old is he? With a room full of children it can be difficult for the staff to spot an accident as soon as it has happened, could you encourage him to tell the staff when he has had an accident so that he gets changed more quickly? I think I would be inclined to leave the potty training until he is a bit more aware tbh.

With regards to the biting - the nursery should have a policy on this - how old are the children involved? It is very difficult to prevent one child biting another but very distressing when it is your child that has been bitten. I would definitely report this to the nursery manager and ask what they are doing to try and prevent it happening again. I would be concerned that it was going unnoticed.

[TAFKAtheUrbanDryad]

I only started with the potty training after he went to the potty of his own accord and started weeing on it. Of course, I have no guarantee that he isn't asking to go/be changed and getting ignored, which is my main worry.

He's 2 and a half, btw.

[rubyslippers]

both things are not on IMO

WRT potty training, my own DS had 2 failed atempts at nursery before we cracked it

i think there may be an element of him not being ready BUT there is no excuse for not asking him every 20 mins or so - a good nursery should be geared up for this

biting - again, succesive incidents which havent' been noticed is poor

i would ask if staff ratios are being stuck to

i think a full and frank discussion is in order

[TAFKAtheUrbanDryad]

So, staff ratios is definitely something I'll be bringing up with the manager tomorrow.

Something I didn't mention before, ds' key worker left last week to take up a new job working with SN children. While I wish her the very best, ds was very attached to her, and she was great. I'm wondering if ds and the other boy are pushing boundaries with the new key worker, and that's how ds has ended up getting bitten.

[purepurple]

Complain, very loudly. The staff are obviously not very good.
Children should not be left in soiled nappies. Ever.
Children do bite, but not to notice is not on.
Your child is obviously not being cared for properly.
The staff need a kick up the bum.
I am a nursery nurse by the way, and I would be mortified if what you described happened in my room.
Be prepared for the manager to try to fob you off.

[TAFKAtheUrbanDryad]

Just trying to get my shit together to phone. Waiting for the breakfast rush to be finished before I call. Thanks for all your input.

[EssieW]

Definitely complain and ask lots of questions.

The nappy situation is clearly unacceptable.

Re biting - also unacceptable that they're not noticing. But my DS was bitten the other week (again v strong bite mark) and no-one noticed, partly because when another child is aggressive towards DS, he goes very quiet and doesn't react. Depends on temperament of child I guess. But if it's happened before and on regular basis and recently, then they should be keeping extra watch on him. FWIW my nursery were mortified that no-one had noticed.

[TAFKAtheUrbanDryad]

So, rang up this morning and spoke to the manager. She made me even more angry by claiming that the reason ds wasn't getting taken to the potty or his nappy changed was because he is an "independent child" and the staff don't always notice.

So, I have a meeting scheduled with the manager and ds' new key worker on Friday. The problem is, I have heard a pretty horrific story about something that happened to one of the boys in ds' room, where he ended up with skin hanging off his face, and needing plastic surgery. I feel physically sick at the thought of leaving ds there. Dh thinks I'm overreacting.

I've been looking at alternative playgroups for him - he doesn't need to go to one, I'm on mat leave, but I feel he needs the stimulation of a nursery setting and there's only so many mum and tots groups I can go to (I manage 1 a week, and it's really not my scene) and also dh works from home on Fridays, so really needs ds out of the house that day, as he can't work with ds there. The other playgroup I've got my eye on can only fit ds in on Tuesday and Thursday afternoons, so it might be an option that ds goes there those days, and does nursery on Fridays for the minimum amount of time, or I just make an effort to take him and dd out for the day, or whatever.

Will see what nursery manager has to say on Friday, but I'm pretty much convinced that I'm going to take him out.

[colditz]

So they can't deal with him because he's "an independent child"????

WTF????

Does he carry a fucking knife or something?

Shit excuse. Pull him out if you can.

[purepurple]

Agree with coldtiz

[Lizzzombie]

Quick question re the nursery potty training technique.
Obviously they know you are doing this, and wether in pull ups or pants should be following a potty training regime at nursery too.

How often do they take him to the toilet?
Do they have a potty training 'diary/report' which they can give you every which shows his progress.

He shouldn't be left in dirty nappies at all. But if they were actively toilet training him then they would have noticed his nappy at the very latest time of 10/15 minutes. (My Ds' son nursery literally take them to the toilet ever 15 minutes wether they need it or not when training).

Agree, the staff not noticing biting is very bad. As the mother of a biter (which the nursery are actively trying to help me tackle) I would be very angry to know my child had bitten a child and gotten away with it, which would probably mean he would do it again and again. Definately not good enough.

Best of luck tomorrow x

[BrigitBigKnickers]

Dear God! He's two and a half and not noticed because he's "an independent child"???

SOrry but that is just lame lame lame.

Get him out of there.

[rubyslippers]

that is soooooo poor

i think you do need to pull him out

a 2.5 year old is not independent enough to toilet himself especially at the training stage

that is lazy on the nursery's part

so aggravating - you aren't over reacting by the way

[MmeLindt]

Agree with everyone else, the nursery is not meeting the needs of your DC.

How can a 2.5yo be classed as so independant that he does not need assistance with going to the loo? My DC were very independant but would still have needed several reminders at that age to go on the potty.

The fact that he has been bitten several times without anyone noticing is terrible. Obviously these things happen, but if they have biters in the group then they have to be more vigilant.

I would be looking for a new nursery.

[nickschick]

Tafka being honest if you are able to care for him at home perhaps thats the best option for now,maybe you can do something exciting on fridays....soft play and lunch out and a look around shops or a park etc.

That nursery is very wrong in many aspects.

[Jumente]

Dryad, no, he doesn't need the stimulation.

Little kids are fine with just their mum and the odd play session.

It's a giant myth that they need to be among other children 24/7 - mostly at this age they either play alone or 'alongside' but don't really engage with the other children (except to bite them obviously)

Recent reports show children are better off at home until 3. i think - don't quote me, can't remmeber except I saw it last week!

So take him out and give yourselves a break.
they sound utterly shite btw.

[chimchar]

another ex nursery nurse here...

imo what is going on is just not acceptable. if he came home once in a poopy nappy that could be missed, but on a regular basis is sheer lazyness or not caring. again, to miss one incident of injury...sometimes, it happens, but not all the time...and i think the nurserys reaction is telling too.

if they had been horrified and apologetic, then i would have had more faith that things would change, but as it is i wouldn't take my baby there again, especially if you don't need him to go because there is noone else to have him...iykwim!

they sound crap there. stick to your guns with them....good luck. let us know how it goes.

[TAFKAtheUrbanDryad]

Lizzz - the old keyworker would take ds every 10 minutes, apparently, but I find it really hard to believe that ds would wait for a 10 minute window to wee/poo. Perhaps I'm just too cynical.

Just to clarify - ds isn't full time at nursery, he only goes Monday, Tuesday afternoon and Friday, so I've not left him there at all, and the next time he goes will be tomorrow. Maybe.

You ex-nursery nurses, do you know if nurseries have Terms & Conditions about terminating a place? And if there were, surely there would be a clause which said that if I was worried about my child's safety or health?

[nurseryvoice]

Nursery proprietor/manager here and parent of child at nursery.

Only you have seen the contract you have signed. If there was nothing in it about being happy with level of care then unfortunately there is not a lot you can do.

A contract is a legally binding contract. If you have to givw a months notice then that is what you will have to do.

The level of care you have been receiving does not sound that high, but if you can work with the nursery to sort the problem out it would be better. However if you have lost all faith with them then it would probably be best to try and find another nursery.
Good luck

[TAFKAtheUrbanDryad]

nurseryvoice - thanks for that. Unfortunately, I have No Idea where the nursery contract might be. I'm sure I can find the terms & conditions somewhere though.

Been chatting with ds throughout the day about how he feels about nursery. I get a general impression that he's being pretty much ignored there, I asked him about the grown ups in his room and he said there weren't any , and I also asked him what colour the nursery was (brown) and what colour he'd like it to be (yellow). We've been doing a lot of role play with dolls today as well, and ds got one of his dolls and smacked his head on the radiator and said, "This is Freddie [the boy who was hurt, not his real name] and he's sad."

I feel really, really shitty that I've sent him when he's obviously not wanted to go, and that his needs haven't been met. I'm debating on phoning Ofsted tomorrow and putting in a formal complaint, now I've heard about "Freddie" being injured. I've also heard that another boy broke his arm there, and nobody noticed. I feel awful about going to nursery tomorrow, and I don't want to leave ds there.

I'm finding it so hard to put these thoughts in order, for when I have the meeting with the manager tomorrow. I have a nasty feeling that I'm just going to cry and she'll think I'm silly, and I'll end up apologising or something.

[ThatVikRinA22]

hi tafka

i had a similar experience with my DD when she was little - i think this is an easy decision to make. your dont HAVE to have him in nursery so dont - pull him out - i wouldnt take him back. i didnt - i just paid up and said my DD wouldnt be going back.

the whole experience put my DD right off - (i tried to weather it but she ended up waking up in the morning crying "no nursery" so i decided enough was enough.)

i found a lovely earth mother type childminder instead and that was exactly what she needed. id have no hesitation about just stopping the nursery visits, id just give notice and pay up but dont take your DS there anymore - it sounds horrible and unprofessional. id just not risk it. you dont even have to have the meeting if you dont want to - just say he wont be going back then put your complaints in writing if you still want to draw their attention to their shortcomings.
take him out. easy peasy.

[ThatVikRinA22]

oh and tafka its me....pickyvic! ive namechanged! just realised you wouldnt have a clue who i was.

[chimchar]

oh tafka. it sounds horrible.

i'd be the same as you about the crying...can you use your emotion to focus on the bad bits and get a bit angry iykwim?

could your dh go with you, or could you put all of this in writing and pop it in to them instead?

my one piece of advice with regards to childcare is always "trust your gut feeling" things seem very wrong here...go with what you feel to be right. good luck. x