NAPS - can I ask those of you who use a nursery...........

[looneytune]

Hi everyone

I was wondering if you could help me out. I'm a childminder and have had an Ofsted inspector recently tell me that she wasn't happy I had children napping at the same time. The reason we do this is because we're out in the morning at group, park, blackberry picking, walks etc or doing activities at home then it's lunch then naptime. If a child needs to nap sooner then they are more than welcome, of course. It's just that with my ages, this works pretty well.

Can I just ask if your nursery:

a) lets them nap when they decide they are tired
b) have a set nap time for them to sleep

Also, what age is your child?

Reason I ask is that what they do in a baby room is probably different to what happens when they are older? (not sure as don't know much about nurseries).

And if you don't mind, would you be able to let me know WHERE they sleep? Do they sleep on mats or in a cot and are they on the ground floor? Also, how many adults to number of children?

Reason for the 2nd part is because I apparently have put the children in danger by having all 4 sleeping upstairs, the inspector thought only 2 should be up at a time (I think safer for them all to be in same place - my fire escape is via one of the bedroom windows if upstairs).

I just wanted to see what information I could get on here as the inspector kept referring to nurseries and yet I'm sure most of my friends used to say they tend to sleep at the same time?

BTW, this is all relating to care since Sept 08 - all linked to EYFS.

TIA

[andiem]

my ds2 who is 2.2 sleeeps on a mat at nursery and they all go to sleep at the same time
hope that helps

[WhatFreshHellIsThis]

Hi there,

DS1 is in a nursery, he's 3. In the Baby Room they have a separate cot room and the babies follow the same schedule as at home. In the toddler room all the ones that nap have their nap after lunch, on mats on the floor in a separate room. The others have a quiet activity like a story.

I think if there's a cot free in the cot room they put the youngest toddlers in there, but don't quote me on that.

I saw your thread about the Ofsted inspector, sounded completely barmy to me!

[CMOTdibbler]

When DS was in the baby room, they totally napped on demand (or according to parents wishes). This was in a separate room, in cots.

At 18 months he went up to toddlers, and there they had quiet/nap time after lunch - so encouraged to nap then. This was on mats in a darkened area of the room. No set end though - DS would happily nap for 2 hours. If they needed to nap at other times, they could in the quiet area. Both these rooms have direct access to the outside

Now in preschool on the first floor. Again quiet time on mats after lunch, and naps if needed at other times in quiet area.

[Ceebee74]

At my Ds's nursery, they let them nap whenever they need to upto the age of 1 (in a travel cot or pram - depends on the child and how they get to sleep I think).

Once they turn 1, they try and 'guide' them into a routine of 1 nap per day (after lunch) for as long as they need. In the baby room, they sleep on mats on the floor in a small conservatory type extension - no idea on how many adults watch them though.

When they go into the 'big' room (when they turn 2) they still have the 1 nap per day in the quiet room on a mix of mats, beanbags etc. Again, as long as they need and no idea how many adults are in the room aswell.

However, if a child is really tired at another time of the day, they let them go and have a liedown whenever they need it.

[missorinoco]

In the baby room at DS's nursery they have a cot room the child can sleep in, which adjoins the main room, or, if you are happy, they can sleep in a rocker in the main room if they will.

From toddler room upwards (just after one year old) they all sleep on mats at the same time. Those who won't sleep can continue to play.

HTH

[bigchris]

same as andiem

[bigchris]

oh and same as missorinico

[scottishmummy]

in baby room,sleep in cots.no set time
in toddler room.no set naps time but sleep if parents wish.on mats on floor in designated quiet area.so some asleep and others pottering about awake

[looneytune]

Thanks everyone so far, keep it coming, I need all the confidence I can get as (long story) but parents want me to appeal so I am (they are all busy doing letters )

WhatFreshHellIsThis - yes, barmy is putting it politely.

The ages of the children in question are:

13 months - my ds
19 months - mindee
28 months - mindee
29 months - mindee

So looking at this, it's not much different to nursery then All the parents are FURIOUS, are very happy with the routine and don't want it to change yet Ofsted said I must be napping them at the same time for MY BENEFIT and therefore I'm not meeting the children's 'Individual Needs'. I've worked with this age group long enough to know that they don't always know what's best for them. They'll often fight a nap in favour of playing but then get in a state of overtiredness and wouldn't be able to cope with having to go on the school run (which they LOVE, unless very very tired). They now know they have a sleep after lunch then wake up fresh for the afternoon session. I just don't get Ofsted!!! grrr

Sorry, went off on one......back to the feedback please. All helps me get an idea of what to put forward when fighting this

[onepieceoflollipop]

Ime dcs at nursery all go to sleep at roughly the same time (i.e. after lunch as previous posters have said)

In the baby room (i.e. children up to around 12-18 months) it is more on demand.

My own lovely cm tends to put both mindees down after lunch. (my own dd, 23 months, and little boy who is 17 months). If he has had a morning sleep (which he sometimes does) he isn't always tired after lunch.

I only know this because I specifically said to her that I really hope she manages to get them both down at the same time so she can grab a coffee in peace. However she is very easy going and says she doesn't mind.

[cookielove]

I work in a nursery, for the babies (3months - the term after they turn a year ish) the staff ask parents for routine, and the children nap when the parents require them to as they head towards age 1 they tend to get the children into more of the toddler routine and have a nap after lunch going down depending on the child just before 12.

The children sleep in a sleep room that is inside the baby room, and for now this is also where the toddlers sleep, there are baby monitors in the room but staff do not remain in the room, babies sleep in cots and toddlers on bed mats on the floor, some light sleepers sleep outside in the pram with parents permission.

Toddlers tend to have lunch at 11.15 and then head to bed when finished, as said before the currently sleep in the baby room, they can have up to 9 toddlers and 6 babies sleeping at one time all though this rarely happen. The children are regularly checked on aswell.

In the 2-3's only some of the children sleep this is also restricted at the parents request and also as they start to get older they tend to drop it as they get ready to move up to the next room. The children sleep on bed mats on the floor in the second room which is designed for activites, it isn't darkened but the children sleep fine in this room. We also have a baby monitor, and we check on the room, constantly. The staff do not remain in the room once everyone is asleep.

Most toddlers and 2-3's are woken up around 2 if they have not woken up before this.

Most of the time the children can quite easily wait till sleep times, but occasionally they do fall asleep half way through the day at awkward times, the children are laid down on mats and left to sleep, with the monitors on.

This can happen in the am and the pm.

3-4's only every occasionally fall asleep at nursery, and laid in the book corner if they do, there is no set time for sleeping in that room

[looneytune]

You sound lovely Like all my currents mindees parents

I actually have no problem with them not having a nap, I actually worry more about making sure they get a good enough nap so not in a state for parents in the evening!!! But as the parents said, so what if it WAS for my benefit, they'd rather I got a rest than keel over with exhaustion whilst in charge of their little ones!!! Tbh, I use the nap time to clean the lunch stuff away, tidy toys a bit and prepare activities for the afternoon. Then I grab a sandwich and a cuppa but usually someone wakes up as my bottom kisses the sofa . I've often put children down in the morning as they've been tired for some reason. I sometimes have a home day if I know someone didn't have a good night or I allow them to nap whilst out etc. I always let the children nap if they need/want HOWEVER I was talking to my inspector about my 'general' routine.

[cookielove]

i think inspectors are just picky!

[notquitenormal]

Under two they sleep in a seperate room in individual cots. Nap time for the oldest ones is usually from 12.30, but they can go earlier or later if they're tired. The little ones go more on demand and according to their parent's routine.

The over two room is the same but they sleep on mats in the room. There are two rooms with a wall-to-wall window between so the children that want to sleep go in one and the ones that don't play in the other.

[looneytune]

Yes, I think she wanted to say she wasn't happy with 'something' so it wasn't a wasted visit!

I remember talking on here (in childminder section) a couple of years ago about the inconsistencies as it depends on what each inspector's 'view' is. I heard that one inspector said 'you must NOT have scissors in your first aid kit' and someone else was told 'you MUST have scissors in your first aid kit'. How the hell we are supposed to know where we stand is beyond me. The funny thing is.....when I applied for the variation to allow the 4th child in the 'Early Years' age group, I made it clear I was planning on having all 4 children sleep upstairs. They approved this so that inspector obviously thought it was ok.

[frasersmummy]

At ds nursery from 6 months to 2 years they sleep in prams/cots on demand

From 2- 3 years they all go for a nap right after lunch. They sleep on mats. That said as ds got towards 3 he started dropping his nap. The nursery just said fine and found him something quiet to do

I have never had a cm so dont know what the rules and regs say.. but as a mother I wouldnt have an issue with kids all sleeping together. Surely if they all sleep at different times you dont get time to do dishes, pick up discarded toys, thrown crayons etc never mind get some lunch ...

why do the powers that be have to make everything sooo difficult

[looneytune]

The rules are the same for CMs and Nurseries now. We all follow EYFS. Apparently it's better for me to not take them out and just let them fall asleep when they're ready .

And yes, I don't like doing house related stuff whilst I'm minding yet I need to make sure the place is clean and safe for the children. If I left the lunch stuff around, we'd have even more flies being pests and upsetting the children!!!

[JeMeSouviens]

DS is 2.2yr and has been at his daycare since 15mths. They all sleep at the same time regardless of age. There are about 9 children, and 2 carers. The littlest ones sleep in cots and the older on mats in the playroom. Age groups is probably about 12mths to 4yo. They are all on ground floor.

[lynniep]

DS is 2.5 and at his nursery

Toddlers (From 18 months) all nap together in a darkened room after lunch - on mats. I am constantly astounded by how they manage to do this - I cant get mine to sleep without driving him around!

They have a quiet corner if they want to go rest at any time, but apparently none of them ever want to do this because the other kids are playing. DS's normal naptime is about 11-1, but at nursery he does 12.30 -1.30/2ish because everyone else does.

There will only ever be one person overseeing the sleeping toddlers, possibly with another soothing a child to sleep.

Babies nap on demand and there are cots for them upstairs in the baby room with individual bedding for each child.

Depends on how many babies are asleep as to whether they get staff in there I think - they have two rooms but joined by an open arch, and the rooms are tiny so one member of staff can sit in the archway and see whats going on in both rooms i.e. there may be 6 babies and 2 staff, so if only one baby is sleeping then 1 staff member will sit in the doorway to keep an eye on both rooms.

[PortAndLemon]

DCs' nursery has set suggested times for naps in the baby room, but if a child is tired at another time then they can nap then and if they aren't tired at nap time they don't have to nap. To be honest they pretty much do all nap at the same time, though (the power of peer pressure). As they get older there's "quiet time" at a predefined point and they can nap or just sit and chill quietly. This transitions from all of them napping to very few of them napping as they get older.

In the baby room they nap in a separate sleep room in cots; later on they nap on mats on the floor of the room they are in normally.

Fundamentally you can't make a child nap when it doesn't want to nap. So if your Ofsted inspector is claiming that you are forcing them to nap on your schedule I'd question whether she's ever actually met a child...

[PortAndLemon]

Quiet/nap times are set by room, though, so I suppose that the 13 month and 19 month olds would be napping at a slightly different time from the 28 and 29 month olds (although there'd be a fair degree of overlap)

[dontrunwithscissors]

Nursery no. 1 (DD attended until 14 months) - could sleep whenever they wanted. Some children slept in cots (in a separate room). DD, and many other children, slept in prams or pushchairs outside. I don't know what happened once they got older.

Nursery no 2 - can sleep whenever they want until 1 year old (there are cots in the same room, but most sleep outside in prams.) After that, they sleep after lunch on mats on the floor.

I have to say this is one of the things I hate about nursery. DD needed two naps a day until she was 18 months, but the nursery routine didn't allow for that. Even now (at 2.4) she needs a good 1.5 hours a day, but because other children either don't nap or sleep for a lot less, she gets woken up. By Thursday she's so overtired she often doesn't sleep at all and is in such a state. I would love to move her to a CM (in the hope her day would be a bit more child-led, but spaces are so difficult to get.)

On children sleeping upstairs: I visited a nursery that was entirely based on the first ffloor of a building. It took children from 6 weeks to 5 years (perhaps 40 children in total?) How on earth would they get all the cchildren out? (There was also only one exit.) It seems that CM's are victimised, whilst nurseries are given free-rein to practice some less then child-friendly routines.

[PortAndLemon]

I think in principle a nursery has to have two exits, drws. It would be interesting to see what Ofsted thought about the one you visited.

[Haylstones]

My ds is 18 months and his nursery still let him sleep whenever he wants- sometimes twice a day. They encourage the children to sleep around the same time but don't enforce it, which sounds exactly like you!

FWIW, our nursery has all the babies and toddlers on the first floor- they regularly take them all in the garden at the same time and manage perfectly well getting them downstairs so I'm sure in the event of a fire they'd be fine.

[Haylstones]

My ds is 18 months and his nursery still let him sleep whenever he wants- sometimes twice a day. They encourage the children to sleep around the same time but don't enforce it, which sounds exactly like you!

FWIW, our nursery has all the babies and toddlers on the first floor- they regularly take them all in the garden at the same time and manage perfectly well getting them downstairs so I'm sure in the event of a fire they'd be fine.