Am furious at nursery, am going to kick their ass this afternoon!

[leglebegle]

My ds1 is sort of potty trained but still has loads of accidents. Its not going well at all and My health visitor says its all to do with our new baby. ds1 goes to nursery 3 days a week and every time I am given 3 changes of sopping wet clothes back at the end of the day. I couldn't understand why it was going so badly and why we started so well at home and then it deteriorated into him not even wanting to sit on the potty at all. 3 things happened so far this week which have shown me what is going on and I am so shocked. Monday - I'm told that ds1 and another boy won't go in the designated toilet breaks (both have only just learned to use potty) and they are just 'lazy' as they lose control of their bladders later. Tuesday I arrive and tell them ds1 has just said he needs to do a poo. He's waved to the bathroom on his own and told 'you know what to do'. Well, actually he doesn't! He struggles with his buttons on his jeans, he can't sit on the big loo yet by himself as he's a bit scared in case he falls in, at home we have one of those seats you put over the loo to make it smaller. I was shocked to realise they were going to leave him by himself when he clearly can't do it. Then last straw was last night when I went to pick him up only to find him soaking wet and upset. I'm told he'd said he needed to go the loo, was sent in by himself, he couldn't pull his jeans off, in the end had pulled them down with the buttons still done up he was that desperate and had tried his best to sit on the loo but couldn't balance and had 'misfired' and soaked his jeans. I am furious and so is dh (who is usually the voice of reason). He is so clearly not potty trained, he needs to be helped! I am going in this afternoon to have this out with them. What would you say?

[oooggs]

That is disgusting and I am sorry but I can't think of anything reasonable to say. I am so cross, hope DS is ok and that you get this sorted.

I would be too mad to say much and would have to send DH in, hope you are calmer than I could be. Good Luck

[serenity]

I'm shocked! Toilet breaks? WTF!!!

Even DS1 (6) doesn't have to perform at set times.

Kick some serious butt (and report them, I think their behaviour is disgusting tbh)

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

That as you say, he isn't toilet trained yet and needs an adult to go with him, plus he can't be expected to fall into line with designated toilet breaks as his bladder etc isn't ready yet. Poor little mite - it must have been v stressful.

I'd be calm, but make my displeasure very obvious.

[LIZS]

How old is he ? It sounds like the nursery's attitude is just designed to demoralise and demotivate him , completely baffling. Perhaps you could suggest that you will dress him in clothing he'd find easier to manage to encourage his independence (loose joggers worked for ds) while they offer to help him as he establishes a good habit and routine. If he can anticipate his needs then they shoudl work on this even if it is not strictly convenient but continue to prompt him at the breaks. He can't be the first child they have had at this stage .

[pinkmama]

Good luck in being calm over that one, I too would be too cross to be reasonable about it. My dd 7 and they can still go toilet when they need at school. Thats just awful practice

[open]

Your poor little boy! I think the nursery staff are being utterly ridiculous. I'd speak to the person in charge, list my concerns and ask what they were going to do about it. But, tbh, any nursery that says that little kids are 'lazy' for wetting themselves doesn't sound very good. Can you change nurseries?

[mummytummy]

Designated toilet breaks?! How old are the kids there? I had the opposite problem - DD1 would use the toilet at nursery no problem, but she would wet herself at home!! Is this a nursery school, or a nursery from birth upwards?

[HeyEnidYouveLostWeight]

If that were my child they'd be out of there like a shot, but I know its not always that easy

[pedilia]

my heart goes out to you, the poor little mite, could you talk to any other parents I can't belive anyone can be happy with that kind of treatment of their children. I for one would be furious.

[leglebegle]

he's just turned 3. they said that they have to have so many teachers in the rooms at a time and so they can't up and leave every time a child needs to go the loo. I understand that but what do they do when someone wants to go outside the 'loo breaks'?? they can't expect someone just being potty trained to just click by themselves. I think the problem is he started 3 months ago so they think he ought to be doing it properly now. but they aren't putting enough thought into why it isn't going well ie. the new baby. to label him as lazy makes me want to cry. he so isn't lazy, and that is not what this is about.

[leglebegle]

it was one woman who said he and the other boy were lazy, well she said "its just laziness" - same difference. I was really cross when she said it and thought "stupid cow" but am now thinking maybe its the attitude of them all. other than this he loves the nursery and has some good friends there so if I could sort it out by having it out with him I would rather than whip him out to another one and god knows what problems.

[leglebegle]

have it out with them I mean!

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Of course he's not lazy! Toilet training takes the time it takes for each individual child and that's it.

[MunchedTooManyMarsLady]

leglebegle. I'm really for you. That's no way to treat a small child.

Just a quick point (but only because I've been there so many times), could you put your DS in jogging bottoms for school to take that stress out of it for him? I'm not taking nursery's side at all because I think that someone should go with him and make sure that he is ok, I just think that should he find himself desperate again he might have a little more success with easier clothing.

[frogs]

How old is he? I've had two in nurseries, and this does seems strange. Are they not given the option to use a potty?

Having routine toilet breaks does seem to be normal practice, to get them into the habit and ideally make sure they never get to the point of being desperate. But there should be provision for those who need to go inbetween times, and yes, IMO they should be accompanied by an adult. Boys in particular need to be reminded to push their willy downwards, otherwise there will be wee everywhere anyhow. Maybe he still needs to be taken to the loo every hour or so until he gets the hang of it better -- this is what I did with my ds, girls seem to find it easier to hold on, for some reason.

Pulling trousers down without undoing buttons seems to be normal little boy practice my ds is 5.5 and still does this. You could make his life easier by investing in cheap tracksuit bottoms so that he doesn't need to fiddle about with buttons. I seem to remember ds going commando under his trackies for a while, as he couldn't manage two layers but that was in the summer!

Hope you get a result with nursery -- FWIW I would try to point out that he seems to still needs a lot more help to manage, and would it be possible for them to sit down with you and work out a way of approaching it that suits both of you, so that he gets the same message at nursery and home. Kicking ass is of course the more tempting option, but might not do anything for long-term harmony...

[frogs]

Posts crossed with others great minds, clearly! But I do find the 'it's just laziness' comments worrying do they really understand how little kids function?

[Beansmum]

the poor wee boy Maybe the staff are just really clueless and actually don't understand what the problem is. Hopefully it can all be sorted out just by explaining calmly to them what's wrong and what they need to do to help. I hope it can be sorted without the hassle of trying to find a new nursery. good luck

[Gobbledigook]

Give em hell - that's disgusting.

[Hulababy]

So out of order legelbegle and you have every right t be corss. I'd be furiou. Most nurseries will work really hard with parents with PTing, and will go out of their work to make it work. DD's nursery were excellent, even let us take in her own potty at the start as that is what she was used to, and we took in her little stickers and they issued them too to her. They did everything they could have to help with it all.

I relly do think you have to say something to them and let them know what you expect.. You are paying them to care for your child and his needs.

[frogs]

I don't think that attitude is typical, either at ds's nursery there was a boy of 4+ who was having problems, and the staff were always in and out of the toilets with him. They had a rather nice terminology of 'happy pants' for dry/clean and 'sad pants' for wet/dirty, and were always very encouraging to him far more patient than I would have been, probably.

[Bozza]

As you are obviously aware this is not on. When DS was potty training nursery asked me to send him in easy up/down trousers which I complied with (bought several pairs of £1.75 joggers from Asda). I saw this as positive in that they were taking an interest from the beginning.

I don't think that designated toilet breaks are a bad thing in themselves. There will be children who get too caught up in acivity and refuse to break off despite the call of nature. So encouraging them to go at set times might help those. But they should also be allowed to go as and when they need to.

Do they not have potties? Our nursery has two potties (in the toilets) for the children who were being trained. By big toilet do you mean usual full size adult toilet? If so that is ridiculous. Is there a step? It took DS ages to graduate from potty to miniature toilet (and from potty to adult toilet with seat and step at home).

There is no wonder he's struggling at home if this is the encouragement he is getting at nursery. Don't think it can all be blamed on your baby! So I think you need to address the points of equipment, supervision, encouragement and maybe agree to send him in easy clothes.

[littlerach]

I worked in a nursery and it is the norm to have toilet breaks. However, if a child wanted to go another time, then an adult should be with them for obvious reasons, also what if they fell or hurt themselves????? We only sent the children on their own when they were in the oldest group, ie approx the term before they started school.

[northerner]

I feel so cross just reading your post so god knows how you feel. I would be so upset if this was my ds. I'd go right to the top with this. Let us know the outcome.

[MunchedTooManyMarsLady]

I also agree that you need to address the whole "laziness" issue. I think that you should talk to the person in charge about this. If this is staff attitude to a child who is newly potty trained then how on earth do they treat the children as they learn other new things? Where is the positive reinforcement, the encouragement etc? How on earth do they expect children to want to learn if their very efforts are rubbished and they are labelled. Not on at all!