RULES IMPOSED ON NURSERY TEACHERS... A BIT OTT? sorry rant

[MrsBigD]

we had our parent interview at the nurserie dd will go to soon for 2.5h a day yesterday and it seems a very nice place, with the teacher and the nurse being absolutely charming and down to earth.

One thing that utterly baffeled me was to find out the reason why they want kids potty trained an to be able to dress themselves... they're not allowed to 'interfere' with them and are actually not even supposed to touch them at all, i.e. not even holding hands or cuddling them to comfort them (which they don't quite adhere to as kids need to be comforted)! All this is for fear of 'molestation accusations'.

IMHO this is taking being PC way to far. If I were a nursery teacher I'd probably be insulted by this rule as imho it sort of implies that everybody is a suspected potential pervert. What a great vote of confidence that is! NOT!

DD just turned 3 and she's sort of potty trained and very apt at getting her clothes off... good luck to them though once she does pe as well... getting chaned twice should make it interesting. I better invest into some clothes with velcro!

Rant over

[Lonelymum]

This is familiar territory for me MrsBigD. Considering the vetting process that has to be undergone before they can have anything to do with children, you would think they could then be trusted to put a comforting arm around a child who has fallen over and hurt themselves.
How are you BTW?

[Tissy]

Very odd!

Dd is nearly 3 and going through a "can't be bothered with toilets when I've got slaves to change my pants" phase. The nursery staff happily (?!) change her when she wets/ poos herself and are often affectionate with her; she has spent most of the last 2.5 years there, as I work full-time, so they're almost family.

It may be preferable that the children are potty trained, but they surely can't expect no accidents at all at 2.5?

[Tissy]

sorry, too much wine on board, thought she was 2.5. Still, too much to expect no accidents at 3. Are they going to leave her in wet pants if she doesn't get to the loo in time?

[MrsBigD]

well no the will change kids into dry clothing, IN the nursery room so no allegations can possibly be made because there are 'witnesses'... saying that what good are a bunch of 3-5 year old witnesses? The mind boggles! Especially as dd has just entered the phase where she likes her privacy!

lonelymum - thanks for asking. no improvement I'm afraid. Doc did some tests but won't know results for a week or so. In the meantime it's painkillers and light exercise as my back pain is very likely muscle related. For the abdominal pain, still 'no clue'.

[Lonelymum]

Sorry to heat that MrsBigD.

I know these rules apply everywhere but I can reassure you that whenever my kids wet themselves, they always seemed to be helped into new clothes and no nursery or reception teacher in their right minds would expect no accidents at all. Our playgroup were badgering me the other week for ds2's old pants because too many children had borrowed spare pants and not brought them back.

[Lonelymum]

Bugger! I meant to say sorry to hear that. Sorry for the expletive.

[myermay]

Message withdrawn

[ghosty]

How can anyone expect a 2.5 year old to dress themselves? I know there are some brilliant children who can but my DS couldn't do it all at 2.5 ... he could by 3 if I laid out his clothes in such a way that they were easy to get into ...
It is OTT IMO!

[janeybops]

I had to sign a form for my daughters nursery to givr permission for them to chnage her clothes if she has an accident!!

Who would leave a 3 year old in wet clothes for what could be over 2 hours?

I did ask them if anyone refused to sign but they wouldn't say!

[aloha]

My ds is supposed to be starting nursery again next Thurs, I'm actually feeling upset that he might not be able to have a cuddle. I will ask about this when I take him in. He's still in nappies so they'll have to touch him sometimes. And he can't dress himself at all.

[aloha]

Is this just a school thing?

[SofiaAmes]

My understanding is that it is NOT a rule, but rather a nursery by nursery policy. I chose not to send my ds to a nursery that told me that they wouldnt change children that had accidents and even gave me as an example a story about a child who just the day before had had to wait in the lobby with soiled pants for over an hour for his mother. My ds was toilet trained and unlikely to have an accident, but it wasn't what I wanted in the way of attitude for him.

[Caligula]

Amazing, that they've introduced child neglect as a means of avoiding child abuse.

Only in England. (Or America.)

[Slinky]

At our nursery, the children were changed as and when needed - and this went up to the age of 5 before they went to school.

At our primary school (I help in Reception and KS1) and DD2 is in Reception - the TA WILL clean the child and assist them with changing clothes/underwear in the case of "toilet accidents".

And I personally wouldn't send my kids to a nursery/school if they DIDN'T perform these - particularly for a child who is barely 3!!!

[coppertop]

Ds1 is in Reception and children in his class are definitely hugged when needed. (The issue was brought up as part of ds1's sensory problems). Children are also changed if they have accidents.

I think nursery schools may be on dodgy ground if they insist on children being toilet-trained. It may be seen as discriminating against children with SN.

[Fran1]

It isn't a rule as such, but basically nurseries are advised to avoid any slightest chance of accusations of child abuse.

As you can see, the nursery interprets that as they see fit.

Many pre-schools make the rule that children have to be potty trained as they simply don't have the staff or facilities to nappy change. You should find that if you push them a little they will willingly take a near potty trained child for fear of being seen to discriminate!! and if you mention that word they will probably change their minds v quickly! lol

As for day nurseries Mrs Big D as everyone else has said, i'm sure you will find they will comfort your child when in distress. Hope your dd settles in well!

[Slinky]

Just to add...the manager of the day nursery I used (and used to work in) went on a course a while back.

Basically, the course details wanted nurseries to adopt a "no cuddles" policy on their premises My ex-boss got very angry, stood up and said "no this is NOT what I want for my nursery and goes against everything I believe in" and walked out. She was absolutely livid and I believe has lodged various complaints against it, even providing documented proof about how detrimental this would be for children.

Unfortunately another nursery locally has adopted this policy - and a friend who worked there has recently walked out - she says she can't work under those conditions.

[MrsBigD]

Caligula - interesting thought about the child neglect/child abuse issue! Maybe mums should unite and raise a petition...

I'm not too concerned about the nursery dd will be going to as the teacher did say that the do ignore the 'rules' if a child needs a cuddle or wants a hug and I'm sure they'll help dd if and when required - except for the toilet bit. She's fine at home, but here she hardly ever wears undies + tights + trousers iykwim.

Saying that if I make dd go to the potty just before she should be fine for the 2.5h. I already warned the staff though that if dd wants a no. 2 she'll demand a nappy (that's my potty training issue...) and they said they're not allowed to change her. Thankfully dd can put the nappy on by herself as they're pull-ups and I can then clean her when I pick her up should the need arise.

They did ask whether dd could dress herself and I said 'if she wants to'... she's going through an exhibitionist phase at the moment.

All in all I had a very positiv feel about the nursery though.

[MrsBigD]

Fran1 - dd is a cuddle monster. If the staff won't give her enough cuddles she'll simply 'assault' some of the kids . Poor ds (4 months) keeps getting hugged to smithereens LOL

[wild]

ds nursery takes children from 3 months upwards so such a rule would not be enforceable, I can't imagine they introduce a sudden no hugging rule at a certain age. He's 2 now and in nappies so needs to be 'intefered' with so to speak. I can't see when childcare of this kind is provided quite routinely and effectively there need to be such scruples for pre-school children. It just does not sound at all sensible even as an anti-molestation precaution. Even a CCTV would be better

[JulieF]

DD attends a nursery that is part of an independant school. The standard terms and conditions we had to sign state that we understand that a member of staff may use physical contact to comfort a child in distress. They have helped my dd wipe her bum and changed her after accidents several times.

I have also seen them cuddling upset children, including my dd.

I would be really unhappy about leaving her somewhere where they would not attend to her basic needs if need be.

[MrsBigD]

wild - I'm assuming your ds is at a private nursery? The no touch ule deffo wouldn't make sense there as they hardly can leave little babies in soiled nappies all day.

DD will be going to a state nursery, but as I said... they sort of bend the rules, except for the toilet bit, but then again just this morning I was yet again told to 'go away' when dd went into the bathroom... so in a couple of weeks she'll be an ace

[Carla]

Can't get my head round this one. DDS were both at Montessori nursery from age 2, both in nappies (so had to be changed) and I would have hated the thought of them not having a cuddle should they have hurt themselves. And they did have a cuddle, thank goodness. World's gone mad...