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Nursery closures

52 replies

sallycinamon · 10/08/2007 22:20

I have just found out that my daughter's lovely nursery is closing in 6 weeks. This is because the Local Authority is enforcing the Code of Practice which says that nurseries are no longer allowed to 'top-up' the pre-school funding for 3/4 year olds by asking for a contribution from parents. Basically the funding they get for the 'free' sessions does not cover the cost of actually delivering the session.

I know it sounds over-dramatic (there are worse things that could happen i know!) but I am so upset about it. DD has been so happy there. It provides excellent child care, the staff are wonderful, it is always oversubscribed and has a local reputation which is second to none. It came as such a shock to everyone. I feel sorry for the staff. It is also now proving very stressful finding alternative child care arrangements at such short notice.


Have any other mumsnetters had a similar experience?

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Katymac · 10/08/2007 22:27

I am sorry sallycinamon

Nannynick & I have been predicting this for months

It is a horrid situation & I am very concerned as to how nurseries will be dealing with it in the future

As a potential new nursery owner I am considering not doing the free nursery education sessions

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sallycinamon · 10/08/2007 22:43

Thanks for your message, K.

Do you mean you are going to 'opt out'? I have heard that another local nursery with a good reputation has decided to go down this route. Surely this could lead to falling numbers? Is there really no other option? I just don't understand why the owner of our nursery didn't just put up the fees a bit to cover things. I would not have minded paying a little more and I'm sure most other parents wouldn't have minded either if it meant the nursery could stay open. But perhaps it is not that simple.

Thinking about writing to our local authority to complain. I think it is too late for dd's nursery now but I feel really angry about this stupid system.

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Bubble99 · 10/08/2007 22:51

I've been looking into this and the only way around it seems to be for nurseries to charge the 'top-up' (which, in practice usually only allows them to cover costs with minimal profits if they're lucky) for 'extras' such as food, art materials, nappies etc and to use the govt grant for 'care' alone.

The govt has said that it will not allow nurseries to top-up on care fees and this seems to be the onltyworkable way around it.

Of course, this then suggests that 'care' is classified as just staffing and all activities are 'extras.'

Insanity, isn't it?

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Katymac · 10/08/2007 22:53

It's very complicated

I could say to parents I will charge

7.30 -9.00 £4.00 per hr
9:00-11:30 £2.50 per hr
11:30 - 18:00 £4:00 per hr

It's just bizarre

I'm not even sure if that propoasal would work - I mean it's just a top up by any other name

Apparently you cannot say I won't do 2.5hr sessions (although you can say when they are - so to discourage parents from asking for just the free 2.5 hr session - I can see them happening at 7:00 - 9:30? or 4:00-6:30)

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Bubble99 · 10/08/2007 22:55

And what really P's me off is that Surestart (taxpayer funded) figures, in our area, budget for £ 6.70 per hour as the cost per child but private nurseries are expected to provide the same care for £3.10 per hour (grant allowance.)

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Bubble99 · 10/08/2007 22:58

It's a top-up, Katy, but it's not specifically for 'care.'

This loop-hole has been sanctioned (off the record, of course) by our EYCP.

We have not had 'the letter' banning top-ups as nurseries in other boroughs have.

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Katymac · 10/08/2007 22:58

That is awful Bubble

I am not a fan of Surestart (as you know)

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Bubble99 · 10/08/2007 23:02

We don't do 2.5 hr sessions and have found that most of our parents of 3 year olds stay with us if they are working parents, as a 2.5 hr session is of no use to them if they are working an 8 hour day.

We have some non-working parents who have used the five hour sessions who will move them to a 2.5 hour (usually state) nursery to get the free place.

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Katymac · 10/08/2007 23:05

Is that a large %age of your children?

The government really cock it up don't they

& the sessions are only avail for 38 (is it?) weeks so the other 13/14 they have to pay for that care anyway

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gess · 10/08/2007 23:07

whaaaat? DS3 starts a new nursery in September and I was relying on being able to use the vouchers to part pay.

God this will be hugely unpopular surely?

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Bubble99 · 10/08/2007 23:09

Our full day children and sessionals (the ones we are likely to lose at 3) are about 50/50. But pre-school is where a nursery can (God forbid! We are a business after all) earn a profit, as ratios go to 1:8. So losing any pre-schooler is tough, from a business POV.

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Katymac · 10/08/2007 23:10

Gess (as I understand it) 8 hrs care would cost £32 & the gov would pay for £7.75 of it so you (used to) pay the balance

But now they are saying that we can't average it out like that (I think)

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Bubble99 · 10/08/2007 23:13

gess. Are you talking about employer childcare vouchers?

If so, don't worry, that is a completely different thing.

This is the govts. '2.5 hours free care for every pre-schooler' nonsense.

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Bubble99 · 10/08/2007 23:18

sallycinamon. Is your daughetr at a full daycare nursery or at a sessional (2.5 hour) nursery?

If parents could get together and agree to pay the extra( as they have been already paying anyway) for 'food/drinks' 'art stuff' etc. You may find a way around the closure.

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gess · 10/08/2007 23:19

no no the freebies. I've always used private nurseries and from 3 always part paid the fees using the vouchers or whatever they're called, so I was given a cheaper bill- can they no longer do that? (DS3 is only 2 atm- but I had plans to up his hours after he was 3)

When the council funded SN provision for ds1 (1:1 for 15 hours a week) they used to pay a term in arreas. How on earth is a small business meant to cope with that? Nurseries and pre-schools are already struggly as they've changed to single point entry so lost lots of 4 year olds.

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gess · 10/08/2007 23:20

and sorry but they practically force mothers back to work then only make it possible to get free sessions if your children go 2.5 hours somewhere- how completely bloody stupid is that.

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Bubble99 · 10/08/2007 23:25

Sadly a lot of nurseries will be forced to drop all pre-school provision which will result in many working parents having to give up work completely, as the only places for 3 year olds will be for 2.5 hours only in state nurseries or with nannies or childminders.

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Katymac · 10/08/2007 23:28

Or nurseries will become like private schools

ie you can have the state version - but you might want to pay for the private version

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gess · 10/08/2007 23:28

Oh what gits. I won't be eligible for employer vouchers as I'll be a (funded) student. DS3's new nursery is attached to a private school so I doubt it will close, but I suspect his current one will be stuffed.

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Bubble99 · 10/08/2007 23:28

So you'll be able to work until your child is 3 only, unless you want to use (and can find and afford) a childminder to cover the hours you work. And, presumably, CMs can't accept 'nursery' funding?

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gess · 10/08/2007 23:29

Isn't that crazy though. Bugger, I was planning on upping his hours (less stress - I'm going to be doing full tiem position in part time hours initially), but won't be able to afford to if the grant goes.

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Katymac · 10/08/2007 23:29

Oh we can if we do acreditation

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gess · 10/08/2007 23:30

who's bright idea was this btw?

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gess · 10/08/2007 23:30

whose I mean

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Bubble99 · 10/08/2007 23:31

I know our local council is panicking about this whole issue as most of the places for 3 year olds in this borough are at private nurseries and they know that many will opt out if pushed.

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