Follow up: advice needed

[IsabellaMoltisantixx]

So had settling in session for dd 9 months (after my posts regarding starting nursery) and I was .... shocked

Basically it was an hour long I was in the room with her filling out paperwork and was very disappointed

There were 4 nursery nurses in the 'baby room' and about 10 other babies, actually 5 but one had to go out for something
Anyway, was just a bit u underwhelmed my dd wasn't really plying as I expected. She hasn't been round many babies or unfamiliar situations so she wS kind of sat there staring at everyone. Now, I really have no idea how nurseries work but at that point aren't the workers supposed to pick her up? Get her involved, ?? Make her feel comforted?!?
I honestly can say an hour in there filling out paperwork and none of them budged?!?? They all seemed to be conversing between themselves with the odds 'did so n so have his bottle or 'we have to put him down for a nap'

Don't get me wrong , they didn't ignore her they all said hello n one point we're singing nursery rhymes and coaxing her to come near to join in but I was just so disheartened
I feel like if that's how they were with me sat in the room with my dd only being there for an hour how the hell is it gonna be for her first full day?!?!

Am I overreacting? Is this just normal, it's quite unsettling to see tbh, also my dd grabbed a wooden toy ad pulled herself up on it which she's doing a lot these days, from her weight she tipped the toy over and flipped round, thankfully wasn't hurt n didn't react but just seeing that made me think God stuff must happen like that all the time n no one notices??

This is an outstanding nursery btw with lots of recommendations...
I feel really worried and apprehensive Moreso after her settlingnin session what can I do?

Please advise thank you

[BackforGood]

I'm not sure what your worries are.
I suspect, if this was the first time she was there, and you were also in the room, that they didn't want to overwhelm her.
They aren't going to be stimulating her 100% of the time, your dd needs down time and time to explore herself.
Now, if you mean they were not interacting with any of the babies, then that would be different, but I get the impression it was because they weren't playing with your dd the whole time ??

[IGiorni]

I honestly wouldn’t worry too much, and completely agree with the previous comments. When parents are there, staff won’t want to take over too much and on their first couple of visits it’s about letting children explore and get their bearings. She’s only a baby and it’s all unfamiliar, I’m sure she’ll go off and play eventually. With young babies it is sometimes more focused on care anyway, feeding and changing schedules etc, they will do activities with them but babies are easily over-stimulated and so they won’t play with them all the time.

[HSMMaCM]

She would have probably been upset if they were playing with her all the time. She needs time to sit and watch and take in the new surroundings and make choices about what to do. They encouraged her to join in with song time, but didn't force her on her first visit, which was right. It would have been better if they'd shown you the paperwork in advance, so you just had to come in and sign a few things and then play with your child.

Having said that though, I would have expected some kind of interaction from her key worker. Has one been allocated yet? Maybe it was the one who had to leave the room.

[RidingMyBike]

It sounds very like my DD's first settling in session - her keyworker explained that they don't overwhelm the children by trying to get them doing things but let them then a chance to observe things for themselves. The same with staff approaching her - they don't get in-her-face about picking her up and making her interact but give her space to see things for herself. She also sees that you're comfortable in the space so that means it's an OK place to be.

[InTheRoseGarden]

How were they interacting with the other babies?

[Itchytights]

Not sure what you expect from them- if it’s consistent interaction then you would probably be better off with a Nanny.

They will allow your child to get used to them/ the surroundings. They won’t be doing full on interaction with you there- it is what it is- a settling in session. They will be speaking to your child- offering toys/ perhaps asking if the child wants to join in with songs/ activities etc, but if you are expecting all 4 or 5 NN to be fussing all over your child, then you are expecting too much.

Go to a few more settling sessions and get a feel for the place- you’ll know if something doesn’t feel right.

Fantastic that the Nursery is graded an outstanding- but go with your gut.

Are the other children happy/ interacting? How are the staff with them? Is there a wide range of stimulating and age appropriate toys and play equipment?

Do they take them outside? When?

Look at all these things and use your judgement.

I am an ex nursery manager now working on the other side of the fence.

Good luck.

[IsabellaMoltisantixx]

Thank you everyone for the replies, exactly the reason I wrote it here first as I did t want to jump to conclusions. The only other experience I've had of nursery is when my oldest dd went but she was just about 2 years old! And she didn't seem phased at all, also at that age they seem to play a lot better

Just on that point, one of the reasons we chose nursery over childminder (tbh I would have preferred a childminder) was to do with the socialisation aspect. She has a ten year old sister you see and older cousins so she is around older children a lot more , believe it or not I don't know anyone with a younger baby so never had a play date or anything!

Anyway, your responses have reassured me somewhat. I haven't met her keyworker!! Apparently, she will be there tomorrow for the second settling in session. I'm more worried because she's going to go from an hour being there to 9 hours next week!! There's no in between and I'm shocked they don't offer it as I did mention that


Can people who work in nurseries or know of any please tell me how many babies on average there is? The youngest are 9 months including my dd so there's about three.
The nursery workers seemed very young as well (forgot to mention this!) tbh would have preferred older ones...
When I say young, two definitely looked college age maybe an apprenticeship? Who knows? Can I ask these questions or would I come across as a bit OTT,?

I really wanna build up a good relationship with her key worker so if anyone has any tips please let me know thanks

[ItsLikeRainOnYourWeddingDay]

Sounds like a normal nursery for me.

At the nursery we use there was a max of 15 babies in the baby room and 5 staff. Some days there were only 10 some days the maximum. Ratios were always adhered too.

[IsabellaMoltisantixx]

@InTheRoseGarden
@Itchytights

Thanks so much for replies
One nurserynurse was holding a baby and feeding the milk, one went in the changing room to change one but then when cane out joined the rest of them stood up talking! Im not being nasty about that as I work in a high school and when there's another member of staff in the room we do tend to talk esp if the students are getting on with their work etc
But I just expected a bit more play, interaction maybe? Again I was there only one hour so maybe they have set times to do things and this might have been 'down time'
All the babies (they were about ten) were crawling around and sitting amongst themselves.
There was one who kept crawling up to me and touching my bag as babies do but apart from that they seemed ok from what I could see

It's just maybe the fact they were all stood talking amongst themselves so not really sitting amongst the babies,
I honestly don't know how nurseries work like how many should be in a room? Do they have different roles as in one changes, one feeds?? Again I have no idea so if anyone could help me with that that'd be really appreciated

Yes apparently they go for walks daily, the nursery is situated just next to a lake with ducks and a forest area so it's idyllic and lovely. They also go to the local shops or into the centre for trips, so I hope my dd gets to do this as she definitely prefers being out n about!!!

In response to those saying I expected them to fuss over her, I didn't mean like fuss especially but because she's the new baby she will have to get used to them all? Voice recognition etc so I thought more off them talking to her or calling her name as she recognised voices and always smiles if someone calls out her name, meaning I just wanted them to get familiar with her and her with them if that makes sense

[Itchytights]

I will come back in a bit to answer fully but in response to ratio under 2 years is 1 adult to 3 Children. Depending on the size of the room will depend how many babies and staff are in that room as Ofsted measure the size of the room in determining how
many children the room will take.

[RidingMyBike]

It sounds like the nursery is very well within ratio - it's one adult to three babies for under-twos. At DD's her keyworker or deputy keyworker would change her nappy or be the one feeding her so that's where they get the interaction. I'd expect a mixture of keyworker led activities (maybe a feelie box or some finger painting at that age), time for child-led stuff and time outside. I generally found with mine that at drop off and pick up it was child-led time as they couldn't really do a keyworker led activity whilst also dealing with kids being dropped off at same time.

It's much like if you're with her at home - you won't be interacting with her the whole time as you'll be doing chores, making meals, washing up etc too or at a toddler group chatting with other mums whilst she plays.

As for the ages of the staff. I felt the same and one of the things that I liked about DD's nursery when we looked around was the staff were a real mix of ages and included men as well as women. It turned out that the younger staff were actually more switched on and on the ball with the kids. I found the older staff tended to be a bit more jaded and less interested in talking to parents, and also weren't as good at working the iPads that were used for parent updates, so we didn't get as many updates via that when DD was in a room with an older keyworker.

[RidingMyBike]

As for the staff talking to her and using her name - a lot of babies would be rather overwhelmed to have several strangers suddenly trying to talk to them and get their attention. I found with Nursery that it was very child-led so the staff waited to see how DD would react to them and then went with that, rather than trying to force interaction themselves.

[RidingMyBike]

DD's nursery baby room had a max of 8 in the room (it wasn't that big) and three staff always there. They had them from six weeks old up until walking in the baby room (so DD left it at 15 months). DD started at 12 months but many started a lot younger than that.

[itsaboojum]

4-5 adults in a baby room with ten babies is a good ratio, well within statutory requirements.

I tend to agree with other respondents that the staff behaviour you describe seems perfectly fine. I understand your anxieties but worth remembering that just as many mums would have exactly the opposite reaction. They’d worry that DC was being swamped/overwhelmed by too much input before they had chance to get used to the new environment at their own pace; some can even become jealous if they are too happy with these new strangers.

Very young children can react badly to attention fro members a new person. With mum nearby, the seemingly 'friendly' newcomer can easily be perceived as coming between DC and mum, thereby instantly incurring the child's distrust.

[itsaboojum]

@IsabellaMoltisantixx

This may sound like silly questions, but here goes....

What do you think 'settling in' is?

How do you think it is achieved?

[HSMMaCM]

If you ever do reconsider a childminder, we do encourage the children to be sociable. My mindees mixed with about 40 other children this morning and went to the park this afternoon and played with local children.

Your nursery with the trips to see the ducks, etc sounds nice. Just keep listening to your instincts as you go along.

[IsabellaMoltisantixx]

Thanks everyone again for your kind words of advice and reassurance. I feel better today so hopefully I'll be alright for her second settling in session tomorrow

@itsaboojum
Well I'm just going off my first dd who was 2 when she first went to nursery so obviously a bit older
But how they did it was they showed her the painting table right away and got her involved painting (I had mentioned her fave thing to do at home was painting or drawing) so she basically within 5 mins of me entering the room, my dd was over at the table meeting all the other kids &getting stuck in with the painting! Was introduced to the other kids and I always fondly remember how she held the hand of another girl who was next to her,
Now obviously I know that's not possible for a 9 month old !!!
But maybe I was expecting the nursery nurses to be doing an activity or a little activity and coax her in?

Again, going off me being a teacher here. If there's a new student we already pre find them a suitable buddy and do something like a word task so when they enter our classroom , they're not in the spotlight they join in a practical activity so it's less pressure!

Like I said, I have no idea how nurseries work in terms of babies cos I was always adamant that I'd never put my baby in nursery so young but obviously times and conditions have changed
Now I've read all these responses I kind of get the 'don't want to overwhelm her' part. It does make sense now. I just hope tomorrow's one is better as I have to leave her alone,

Also, forgot to mention there was a 'baby sensory' area in the corner of the room with lots of baby sensory stuff but the babies didn't go anywhere near it which is a shame as I took my baby to baby sensory classes for a few months when she was first born so it would be nice if they do some baby sensory activities but like I said, I'm not sure if they have a routine or not. That'll be one of my questions for tomorrow

[RidingMyBike]

I think it's just the difference between settling a 2 year old in and a baby? They wouldn't have the baby sensory stuff if they weren't going to use it

When you go tomorrow (it is tomorrow, isn't it, the next settling in session?) ask to see their weekly planning and how they communicate with parents. DD's Nursery has a big board up on the wall in each room which any of us can look at which shows different bits of the EYFS and what activities each keyworker is going to be doing with their children. We also get a weekly (PDF) newsletter from nursery which has a summary for each room of the next week's activities. Just checked DD's from last week and the baby room had:

• basic colour recognition and fine motor skills when we make felt pictures
• single word board books to encourage early speech
• to further promote speech we will be singing our favourite rhymes

Focus of the week: colours
Reminder to bring in family photos to make into a family photo book for each child

I have a lovely picture Nursery sent me of DD during her first proper week at nursery with hands and half her face covered in blue paint (her favourite colour) as well as some paper. She is grinning broadly and obviously having a brilliant time!

[itsaboojum]

Please don’t take this as criticism. Just hoping to help, and I know little of your particular situation beyond this thread and your previous one.

I think people often make the mistake of assuming settling in is something nursery do with (or to) a child. This notion frequently involves an over-emphasis on 'activities' and doing things, perhaps within a preconceived time scale of so-many sessions or hours dedicated purely to settling, as if settling were a subject that can be 'taught' and 'learned' by particular techniques".

TBH, I’ll excuse just about anyone who thinks that way, because it’s not dissimilar from some of the rubbish that some Early Years training courses were quite recently promoting.

In reality, settling in is a process that needs to involve families as well as nursery. It needs to start long before you ever set foot in a nursery. In fact, when done properly, by far the greater part is played by the family and done in many hours before visiting nursery. It isn’t about how many free visits nursery can give a child, because settling in is a whole continuous thing which cannot be constricted into just those sessions. It needs to start well before and, in most cases, continue for some time after the visits.

I’m thinking asking about preparation. That involves gradually getting a young child used to being around other people than mum and dad, and that needs to involve people outside the extended family. Getting used to being away from parents; used to new and strange environments, etc....... all for progressively longer periods of time.

It’s extremely difficult for a parent, because it means going entirely against the natural desire/instinct to want to be with one’s baby.

OP, I can see you’ve already done part of that: your other thread mentions time spent with grandparents, but not being used being around other children. That's not a bad start, and far better than the point at which a lot of children enter childcare (who subsequently go on to settle in very well.) But it doesn’t mean DC is perfectly ready or can be made ready purely by a few visits.

Also, be aware that children can struggle to settle at first if they have only a low pattern of attendance. Eg one day a week in childcare means six days a week to get used to not being there.

The nursery staff may well be doing the best thing if they are observing and looking to understand and get to know 'where DC is at' right now. It would actually be easier for them to pile in and start 'doing' things and 'activities' but that isn’t necessarily a productive way to behaviour. Looking busy might create a good impression, but it is often a substitute for the real work of building that vital relationship.

[IsabellaMoltisantixx]

Hi all

Well today's settling in session didn't go well at all
As I passed to nursery nurse , dd started reaching for me I had to try get away and then preceded to watch her from the one way window
She was sat down with nursery nurse looked scared out of her wits!!! I only watched her for a few minutes as they recommended I go away for the hour,
So the last I saw of her was nervously looking up at nn whilst she was sat playing with a toy
When I came back apparently they said she had got extremely upset after a good tasting activity
So when I got there, the nursery nurse was giving her milk!! Which wasn't on her timetable she doesn't have milk at that time but had done this to calm her down as thought she may be tired?!?'
Not sure if I should be ok with that or not? As surely if she starts crying she can't be given milk all the time? Also, her keyworker is on holiday so the first time Dd meets her will be her first day? I can't be being unreasonable here is this normal or standard? What more can I do? I don't want to kick up a big fuss but I'm obviously worried about leaving her longer now

[WooYa]

In the nicest possible way, I think you need to calm down a bit. Obviously your DD is going to be worried because she's with different people but she will settle in soon enough. The milk? Would you rather they let her cry/be upset? Her key worker can't be there all day every day and your DD should bond with each member of staff.

[IsabellaMoltisantixx]

@WooYa

Thanks. I do have GAD. I think that's why I get into a panic. Was just hoping it would have gone better today.
Guess will have to see how she is next week

[WooYa]

It can take a few days to settle in and you'll find that her routine might go a bit haywire until it all settles. I know where you are coming from, my DS had his visit today to start on Monday. I (luckily) work in the nursery too though so I know both sides. We've had children come for years and still get upset at drop off but are completely fine 2 minutes later

[BackforGood]

I'm inclined to agree with WooYa.
tbh, if you are an anxious person, you might have been better starting settling in periods earlier than this.
Obviously I don't know how much you've left her with other people before now? But if this is all new to her, then obviously she is likely to be a bit unsettled at first. It is one reason why it makes sense to go out and leave them with other folk from when they are young and the whole separation anxiety hasn't started.
Re the milk - I would have thought most parents would have preferred that, to coming back to a screaming baby ?
Of courser the KW is entitled to have her holiday. There will also be times when she is ill, or on a course or away for other reasons. If you are a teacher then the KW won't be there for your dd's full day either - most Nurseries will have one shift from 7.30 or 8 until about 4 and another not starting until about 10 and working until about 6, so each day she won't be there for the whole time your dd is. Even if she is, your dd will be interacting with other staff in the room.

[IsabellaMoltisantixx]

@BackforGood

That's great thanks for the advice
You're definitely right there. I did leave it to the last minute, one because I was hoping for a childminder but the one I wanted was fully booked n got back to me quite late into the summer hols
2, I wasn't sure I was going back to work four days (originally was doing three before summer hols) so had meeting second week of August,

I shouldn't have chosen nursery if I'm honest but dp was adamant to do nursery.
So hopefully in the following weeks do you think she will settle? She's only in one day a week which I guess doesn't help the situation! I'm that type of Mum who feels guilt leaving her with other people too, I also have an anxiety about her not being in the routine Iv fought hard to do, I breastfed for 5 months so she was always with me anyway and the. Slowly she was around other grandparents if I popped out for a few hours.

Any other tips for helping her settle?