help from a nursery manager/owner please

[tryingtodobest]

the manager of our tiny rural pre-school is leaving to set up her own large commercial venture 3 miles away.

she approached all the staff in advance of telling the parent committee (who 'run' the setting but who have no training in early years) and almost all of the remaining staff have indicated that they intend to join her at her new venture.

she is giving different information to different people about when the new setting will open. The staff, who only have to give 4 weeks notice, have been asked to indicate whether they intend to leave to give the committee a chance to ensure the continued viability of the pre-school. they are all refusing.

additionally, the pre-school is due an ofsted report. the manager has been asked to leave copies of the last couple of years lesson plans so that the setting can pass these on if requested. she is refusing (stating that they were done in her own time) although she previously requested, and was granted, extra hours pay to cover this. she has also previously indicated that lesson planning was completed between all staff. since the request, she has removed the plans from the nursery.

the situation is extremely sensitive and very uncomfortable.

i would like advice from a nursery manager about how the well meaning but inexperienced parents (on the committee and in the community in general) should handle this to ensure the long term viability of the setting.

what can we do?

TIA

[Judy1234]

When you say it's a rural pre school what is it? Is it a regitsered charity? Is it a business owned by this lady even if not profitable? Is it some kind of partnership of local mothers?

[tryingtodobest]

registered charity run by parent committee. not owned by current leader.

[tryingtodobest]

sorry, i was not clear on the staff issue: they've been asked to give a definite formal indication about whether they intend to leave, which they won't do. the parents have heard via other people that they are planning to leave.

[Genidef]

I would consider ringing OFSTEAD?! But it's just a thought.

A friend manages a pre-school which seems to have a relationship with a local primary. Are you in this situation where you could seek advice from them?

I will ask my husband whether the lesson plans could be considered the property of the school in some way, the way that if I write a report, it is the property of my employer. I guess your issue, though, would be getting them back so maybe it's too late.

[bobbysmum07]

Get a new manager.

The plans, etc, belong to the setting. The manager was paid by the nursery to do them.

[bobbysmum07]

The staff thing is a nightmare. Nursery staff in general are a nightmare.

You can ask them if they intend to leave, but they don't have to give you an answer and you can't demand one. You need advice from someone who knows about employment law.

[tryingtodobest]

bump

[bobbysmum07]

You need to insist that the plans are brought back immediately. Whether the manager wrote them or not, they belong to the nursery. If she refuses, threaten her wth legal action. You must be able to get legal advice through your insurance company.

This will scare the manager in any case (she won't want the threat of legal action hanging over her if she's planning to open her own nursery) and you will get the plans back.

The other thing is more tricky. You have no legal right to demand that your staff are up front with you regarding their future plans. All they have to do is give you 4 weeks notice. It's a matter of decency, but in my experience (I own a nursery), very few nursery workers have any. Young, lack work ethic, etc.

If I were you, I would start looking for different staff. Why should this mean the end of your school?

[Bubble99]

It's called a 'reatraint of trade' clause. These are notoriously difficult to enforce.

The planning is the property of the nursery. She was employed and paid (extra!) by the nursery at the time of writing them. Report her to the police for theft of company property.

What a beeatch!

I'm a nursery owner, BTW.

[Bubble99]

Restraint

[Bubble99]

True, NJ

I particularly dislike the fact that this person asked for, and was given, extra pay to do the planning. And then tries to take planning which is done by all staff.

I would also make sure that any parents thinking of using her new nursery know what kind of person she is.

A call to the local paper might be good. I'm sure a journalist would like to write a

'Local nursery let down by unfaithful manager' type story.

[Bubble99]

Because it is theft.

I wonder what she's done to the computer databases, too.....

[Bubble99]

Bloody hell! I feel like phoning the police myself..

[Genidef]

You are also within your rights to check her work emails, if she's got an account through the nursery, to see if she's emailed stuff to herself (like the plans, other confidential nursery info which would be useful to starting her business) or discussed job offers with other staff etc --any sort of competitive activity which would violate the terms of her contract with you. She may have been silly enough to do this.

I would consider firing her. A) She deserves it. If she is planning to set up a business in competition with yours, she should not be hanging about. B) Would not be a good way to start off a new business. She may well need some sort of reference from a bank for financing, for example. It won't be good if she's left things on bad terms with previous employers.

[bobbysmum07]

I'm not sure you would have grounds to fire her -- unless she refuses to hand over the planning. Then you could get her for gross misconduct.

Extra money for planning. Never heard anything like it. It's a basic part of the job.

[Genidef]

To fire her, you would have to be able to prove she'd violated the terms of her contract. So, I'd have a look at that and start gathering evidence if you can. If she doesn't turn the plans over it should be a no brainer, but I agree seek advice as the last thing you'd want is for her to be able to turn the tables on you.

[tryingtodobest]

oh my goodness!
thank you all so much for your points of view.
the chairman of the committee is seeking legal advice from the PSLA.
i really want to be very upfront and confront the situation but the committee feel that they want to smooth everything over, try to rebuild relations with the manager (and the rest of the staff) before she leaves and smile and be lovely. I disagree.....I feel similarly to many of you and am completely appalled by (what I consider to be) unethical behaviour.

The reason I think the nursery school might be on very difficult ground in terms of its long term viability is that if all the staff hand their notice in (4 weeks before they leave) at the same time, it's fairly unlikely that the committee be able to find people to replace them within the notice period so they won't be able to offer childcare to the majority of children because they won't have enough staff to maintain legal ratios. And if there is a brand new commercial venture three miles away that can, then I'm imagining that parents will just move their children there.

The disappointing thing about the staff is that they don't fit the normal nursery staff profile - they are all (bar one) over 45 and have been with the nursery for eons, plus in many cases, they used the nursery for their own kids, and they live in the village. So you'd think they'd have a bit more decency.

Anyway - thank you for your help. I really appreciate it. (And the sense check that I wasn't overreacting....)

[Genidef]

TTDB
Is it worth considering why so many of them might be willing to go with her given they've been there for years? Has she been there for that long too?

You may find out that you can come up with some sort of strategy to retain them.

[tryingtodobest]

she's been there for eons too