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Being overcharged by nursery???

(56 Posts)
Diaryofalways87 Sun 07-May-17 21:11:29

I am absolutely fuming with my daughter's nursery at the moment. I am convinced that they are overcharging me and despite several emails showing the calculations they are not having any of it! Am I being stupid or are they right?

Basically my 3 year old daughter attends nursery for all day Mondays and half day Fridays, 51 weeks of the year (they are closed for a week over Christmas, which they do not charge for). Except she doesn't actually attend for 51 full and 51 half days a year due to bank holidays. They close bank holidays and claim they do not charge for them in their terms and conditions.

I sent them these calculations to show they are charging me for bank holidays:

Before the price increase (1st September 2016 to 31st March 2017)

(45.00+26.00) x 51 = £3,621.00 per year (before discount)
3,621.00 / 12 = £301.75 per month (before discount)
301.75 - 187.62 = £114.13 per month (with discount)

After the price increase (1st April 2017 to 31st August 2017)

(46.35+26.78) x 51 = £3,729.63 per year (before discount)
3,729.63 / 12 = £310.80 per month (before discount)
310.80 - 187.62 = £123.18 per month (with discount)

Sorry if it's all a bit confusing! I think this demonstrates they are charging me for 51 full days and 51 half days a year when she only attends 46 full days and 50 half days.

I know it's not actually a lot of money we pay each month due to the 3-4 year olds discount, but it's the principle!

Their response is just basically "nope, we're charging you right", with pretty much no explanation. So frustrating!

I need a sanity check here... confused

reallyreallyreallytired Sun 07-May-17 21:15:49

are they charging top up fees?

RandomMess Sun 07-May-17 21:15:56

Are you sure their policy isn't that you do have to pay for Bank Holidays even though they are closed? Many nurseries do charge for BH.

Diaryofalways87 Sun 07-May-17 21:32:22

I assume top up fees are for things like meals? They don't charge for anything like that.

They have told me to my face that they do not charge for bank holidays but when I said I was being charged for them the manager just smiled and said "no, bank holidays are taken into account".

Their response to my calculations were along the lines of "our invoices are worked out by the weekly amount x 51 divided by 12" well no shit, I showed you that!

And then this sentence "Unfortunately days requested for nursery care are just part of the normal weekly calculations."

What does that mean? Is she basically saying it's tough shit that my daughter goes in Mondays and Fridays, when all bank holidays are?

needachangeq Sun 07-May-17 21:33:52

I've never heard of a nursery that doesnt charge for bank holidays. Dd nursery shuts for a week at xmas and easter and still charge

F1ipFlopFrus Sun 07-May-17 21:37:10

What does that mean? Is she basically saying it's tough shit that my daughter goes in Mondays and Fridays, when all bank holidays are?
Yup. That is exactly what she is saying.

Diaryofalways87 Sun 07-May-17 21:39:19

Wow that would annoy me so much! Why pay for sessions they don't attend due to the nursery's choice to close?

Anyway they have told me they don't charge, but I'm asking directly "do you charge for bank holidays?" and will see what they say.

RandomMess Sun 07-May-17 21:39:50

You need to tell them that they are contradicting themselves then. By charging you 1.5 days per week regardless of whether she is able to attend or not you are paying for Bank Holidays.

Perhaps ask to move days so she no longer attends on a Monday!!!

What does your written contract say?

ZilphasHatpin Sun 07-May-17 21:42:38

I've never heard of a nursery that doesn't charge bank holidays either but If they have said they don't both verbally and in their T&Cs then they shouldn't. However I think you need to ask the manager for a meeting face to face and bring in your calculations both of what you have been charged and what you think it shoud be. Have it all very clearly worked out and then go through it with the manager.

RandomMess Sun 07-May-17 21:43:36

The most important thing is digging out your contract and seeing what it says about charges etc. If the contract says that you aren't charged for BH that you can go with that information. I suspect that your contract states clearly you pay for your days per week regardless I'm afraid.

Perhaps the person you are speaking to doesn't actually understand the charging in the contract...

Diaryofalways87 Sun 07-May-17 22:12:32

If the manager comes back and says they don't charge for bank holidays then I agree, I will have to have a meeting.

If they do now claim they charge for bank holidays then they have lied to my face. All they would have needed to say was that they do charge for them and I would have dropped the issue.

I have the original t&c's and fee information but apparently every parent was given an updated one recently but I'm scratching my head as to where mine is hmm so will ask for a new copy.

Thanks for your help everyone! I kind of feel like I'm not being too stupid lol

RandomMess Sun 07-May-17 22:16:43

What does it say in the original T&C?

If you haven't signed a new contract then I would think those still stand...

I don't think the manager has deliberately lied I think she's talking at cross purposes, it amazes me how many people who manage things really are clueless and understanding quite basic financial concepts!

Diaryofalways87 Sun 07-May-17 22:46:12

The original fees sheet says "bank holidays: no charge".

Will have to read t&c's a bit better but DP has told me stop obsessing tonight lol I think he might be right...

I do work at an accountants tbf so my maths is pretty good!

Just makes me so mad when people aren't honest and try to "baffle with bullshit"! If you charge for bank holidays just bloody say it!

armyofangels Sun 07-May-17 22:50:34

DDs nursery charged for bank holidays but you could take the day on another day (so long as they had space) within a month. So this disadvantaged full time children (however they did get a full time 'discount').

I don't know why they wouldn't charge for bank holidays given that they are presumably still paying for the staff and the premises?

LesLiaisonsDangereuses Sun 07-May-17 23:07:33

I have never understood nurseries who charge when they are closed. Surely they work out how much money they need to turn over and then divide that by the number of days they are open to arrive at a daily rate? How can they justify charging for days when they are closed?

armyofangels Sun 07-May-17 23:19:22

Why would they work out 'what they need to turnover'? Les

Most businesses don't operate like this - they would work out the daily cost of a child's place and add a margin for profit & to cover under occupancy and charge that per day.

LesLiaisonsDangereuses Sun 07-May-17 23:27:06

Most business don't charge when they don't provide a service.

CondimentCentral Sun 07-May-17 23:37:12

My DS's nursery sounds exactly the same as yours OP - only charge for 51 weeks a year, calculate the monthly rate the same way, & don't charge for bank holidays.

They subtract bank holidays from each months invoice as they fall, rather than calculate it over the whole year. Have attached a bit of my invoice for this month to show what I mean.

Could this be how your nursery do it?

Diaryofalways87 Sun 07-May-17 23:40:47

I did say to the nursery that I was happy to pay the £123 a month, but would like to place DD in 5 and a half alternative days, to which they've obviously not replied to.

I understand that they still have over heads on bank holidays, but is it really fair that I pay the same amount we someone whose child attends, say, Tuesdays and Thursdays and therefore never misses nursery? After all they are providing a service and they are choosing to close.

And all that is irrelevant anyway. They told me they do not charge for bank holidays!

Diaryofalways87 Sun 07-May-17 23:43:33

This is the fee information sheet given to me when DD started.

peukpokicuzo Sun 07-May-17 23:48:16

Our nursery didn't charge for bank holidays.

The numbers in your OP don't prove anything either way, without some basic info like what do nursery publish their day rate to be, and what have they actually charged you.

Diaryofalways87 Sun 07-May-17 23:58:08

The day rates are in my op. £46.35 for full day and £26.78 for the half day at the moment.

I am paying the amounts in my op, I just don't think these amounts are right.

Diaryofalways87 Mon 08-May-17 00:03:33

Oh and @CondimentCentral, no they are not deducting bank holidays like your nursery is. My May invoice is the same as every other month, as was April, as was January.

BackforGood Mon 08-May-17 00:08:06

If they do now claim they charge for bank holidays then they have lied to my face.

If you go in with that attitude, you aren't going to get very far.
No-one has 'lied to your face'. Most likely you are speaking to the manager, who is not an accountant nor a mathematician nor a lawyer. She is trained in childcare, and then got promoted. As another poster said, you are probably talking at cross purposes. She's thinking 'these are Diary's weekly charges, we don't charge anything extra when there's a BH in the week'
Mathematically you are correct, but I guess you look at what you pay over the year, and then see if this is an issue for you.

Of course businesses charge for Bank Holidays - they are public holidays which their staff are entitled not to work. If you pay a monthly fee for your bank account, you don't get a discount in Jan., Mar/April {whenever Easter falls}, May, Aug, and Dec - you get charged the same monthly fee.
It's unfortunate that your dc attends on the day BHs fall on, but that is your choice. You've actually said All they would have needed to say was that they do charge for them and I would have dropped the issue., so it seems it's not about the money, but about being proven right?
It's unlikely she could attend on other days as they have to be in ratio - they can't just randomly take other dc.

Diaryofalways87 Mon 08-May-17 06:53:34

Whoa @BackforGood, I am just venting on Mumsnet here! I'm not going to charge in shouting "you lied to me".

This isn't some team leader I've been speaking to. It's the nursery manager, who actually sends me the invoices. If she doesn't know her own Nursery's fees/policies then I would question why she is manager. She may not be a mathematician but the maths I showed in my op is not exactly calculus! And if you're not sure of the maths then isn't it more professional to say "ok, I'll look into that for you" instead of just "no you're not paying for BH".

I may not pay much each month but DD only attends 15 hours a week, 11 of which is supposedly free. So £123 is a lot to us each month.

Anyway I will await the other manager's response to my direct question of "do you charge for bank holidays" before I moan any more!

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