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Find nursery advice from other Mumsnetters on our Nursery forum.

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Find nursery advice from other Mumsnetters on our Nursery forum.

Nurseries

Nursery charging extra but can't explain why!

27 replies

Blueprintorange · 02/10/2015 13:57

Hi,

DD (3) has just started a new nursery full time. She's eligible for the free hours, but the nursery have an odd fee structure, and it's difficult to work out!

My issue is that they charge £53 a day for a full day, based on a 10.5 hour day. For the days that funded hours are used, they charge £7.00 an hour, but that would work out as £73.50 daily rate, surely?

Are they allowed to charge extra per hour on the days that the funding is applied?

OP posts:

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Blueprintorange · 02/10/2015 13:58

Sorry, to clarify, the £7.00 is the wraparound hours that they don't let you use the hours for, eg: 7am-8:30, 12:30-1pm etc

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Laquila · 02/10/2015 13:59

Are you sure the £7 p/h doesn't include extra for breakfast and lunch? Seems unlikely TBH but just a stab in the dark! I'd just give them a call and ask.

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Frusso · 02/10/2015 14:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Blueprintorange · 02/10/2015 14:12

Thanks. I have spoke to them but they say that's how they work it out, but can't/won't explain why it's more per hour on the days that funded hours are used.

It could be for meals I suppose, but they should be able to explain that. I'm annoyed because it seems underhand.

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Floggingmolly · 02/10/2015 14:25

Make them break the charges down clearly . They can't just issue a one line invoice and announce that they know how to work it out, but you don't need to.
You're paying probably more than you should for the service, don't let them fob you off.

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TakesTwoToTango · 02/10/2015 14:26

I'm not sure if the legalities but I thought it was something to do with the free hours having to be applied to early years teaching and not to food/nappies/wipes other expenses associated with it, so if they have a margin for this type of stuff included in the "paid for" price, they have to split it out.

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ThatsNotMyHouseItIsTooClean · 02/10/2015 14:36

We pay a ludicrous "suncream & similar" charge at ours. They probably only receive £4p/h from the government which doesn't cover their costs so they need to charge a premium for the other hours. The alternative is to apply their normal charging structure but not let you use the free funding.

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ThatsNotMyHouseItIsTooClean · 02/10/2015 14:39

As a worked example, they are only getting 6 hours X £4 from the government for the funded hours. This gives them a shortfall of £29 per day which they need to recover from you. What they call this depends how creative they are!

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LittleRedSparke · 02/10/2015 14:52

on the other hand - a daily rate can be different to an hourly rate (not saying either is right)

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Frusso · 02/10/2015 16:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HSMMaCM · 04/10/2015 13:10

A part day is more per hour than a full day. They can do this. In reality (as others have said) they're probably trying to make up the shortfall in funding. This is why many settings have stopped offering free hours. Don't complain to the nursery or LA, complain to the government, who have forced settings into doing this, by telling everyone they're funding free places when they're not.

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dontcallus · 04/10/2015 21:55

Agree with HSMMaCM - we charge more for part hours than the full day (part hours could mean 2 children instead of one, which is two lots of paperwork, planning time), also it will be to make up the loss due to funding. Its the only way they can do it.

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LittleRedSparke · 05/10/2015 07:02

That doesn't make sense '2 children being more work' 2 children means 2 lots of pay

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littleducks · 05/10/2015 07:14

I think she means two children at different points in the same day, or nursery charges one rate per day but a couple of pounds more than half that rate for a half day. As don'tcallus says two children mean two lots of paperwork whereas if the same child stayed all day they would only need to complete learning journal entries etc for one.

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Blueprintorange · 05/10/2015 07:27

Thanks all, it looks as though we'll just have to suck it up and pay.

Had we known, we wouldn't have moved DD to this nursery!

It seems very sharp practise, as DD Is there all day, so the hourly rate shouldn't be charged as it would be for children who only attend for part of a day. Also we should be able to choose to spread the free hours over two days to get the most benefit, rather than being forced to spread them over four days, and therefore have to spend more per hour over more days.

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NickNacks · 05/10/2015 07:37

Don't blame the nursery but the govt who take the credit for these free hours but actually expect nurseries and cms to fund it.

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balletgirlmum · 05/10/2015 07:47

Lots of places charge more per hour than they do per full day & more per day than they do full week for example.

It's not that they are charging more but that people using full days/weeks get a discount.

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Blueprintorange · 05/10/2015 07:53

But we're not using them by the hour, we go full time!

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FishWithABicycle · 05/10/2015 08:03

It's perfectly reasonable for a business to charge more for short blocks of time within a day than for a whole day.
£53 is the price for a whole day if paid in cash.
£7 an hour is the price for oddments of 1.5hr here and 30 min there which you are using to turn what the government is giving you free into a full day.
I don't see this as any more unfair than the fact that a can of soup (or whatever) is £1 if bought singly but you can buy an 8-pack for £5.
It's normal.

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DesertorDessert · 05/10/2015 08:06

Nursery charged us breakfast club and after school rates for 2 full days of free hrs, and breakfast and afternoon for the 5th session. £35per day went to 25 per day. Better than nothing. We had to use them FT, so just took the benifit of £25/week. Still £100 off a months bill.

Are you sure it isn't to do with holidays - 15 hrs are term time only, so Sept you'll have had a week of FT before the schools went back, and again for Oct half term.

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BaronessEllaSaturday · 05/10/2015 08:13

My local nursery does 5 sessions a day lets call them breakfast club, nursery session, lunch club, nursery session and afternoon club. If you book and pay yourself for all 5 sessions then you get it for x amount which is the full day rate if however one of the nursery sessions is used as a part of the free 15 hours then that is separate and you are classed as only contracting for 4 sessions so have to pay for 4 times the session rate so it does cost more comparatively but your child is still there full time.

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HSMMaCM · 05/10/2015 22:46

Your child in physically in the same place all day, but part time in a funded place and part time in a nursery place. It's funded billed and organised sparately even though it appears as one full day to you.

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Katymac · 05/10/2015 22:59

This is going to happen more & more until providers either close or stop offering funding

How can they operate on 60-70% of the money they need to survive

When the 30 hours policy comes in there are going to be loads of very unhappy people who cannot access them as nurseries cannot afford to offer them

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insancerre · 06/10/2015 06:08

I agree katumac. It is definitely going to get worse. All the providers who put themselves forward to trial the free 30 hours in sep 2016 are in for a shock when they find out that the first 15 hours are at the normal rate but the rest is at a reduced rate. I can see many withdrawing from the trial.
It doesn't bode well for the full rollout in 2017. I can't see it happening.

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glenthebattleostrich · 06/10/2015 06:41

My LA pay £1.02 per hour less than my hourly rate, so £15.30 per week less that, unless I'm creative, I can't recoup. To offer funded places I'd have to put charges up for everyone which isn't fair.

I know lots of childminders who have withdrawn from offering funded places and the only places planning to in my area are not the sort of places I'd send my child.

I don't blame the nursery to be honest, they have the same overheads but are being paid less.