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When and how to tackle night training?

(41 Posts)
northerner Wed 10-Aug-05 12:38:03

Ds is 3.4 and has been clean and dry since 2.5. However, he still wears a pull up at night nad it is full of wee every morning. He is no where near being dry.

I know he is lazy, and as soon as his pull up goes on he'll wee in it instead of going to the toilet. Should his bladder be able to go through the night now?

My SIL lifted both of her kids at 10.30pm to encourage them to be dry at night time and taht seemed to work for them.

Any advice?

WigWamBam Wed 10-Aug-05 12:42:20

My dd was 4 in May, and still can't get through the night - she's nowhere near being dry, and at the moment I can't see the point in trying. She asked to try a few weeks ago, and we had absolutely no joy whatsoever so it's nappies for a while longer.

Someone did tell me that there is a hormone that needs to kick in before they are able to go through the night, it suppresses the need to urinate - and until that happens, there's no point in trying.

I haven't tried lifting because from what I can see it just encourages them to wee in their sleep. I know other people have different views on this though.

katierocket Wed 10-Aug-05 12:45:20

northerner, we're in a similar situation and I started this thread a while ago
here

foxinsocks Wed 10-Aug-05 12:51:55

ah ha! We have just trained ds (3 years 9 months)

Our situation sounds exactly the same as yours northerner - ds every morning had a sopping wet pull up and would often wee straight through that and his pyjamas and through his sheet. I was sure it was basically because he was lazy and couldn't be bothered to go to the loo.

I told him we wanted to get rid of the nappies. At first he was a bit hesitant so I decided to be a bit sneaky and bought him the cheapest nappies I could find. After a few nights in these, I asked him if he wanted to get rid of the nappies and he did. Essentially, the nasty cheap nappies made him feel wet while the lovely expensive pull-ups had been keeping him nice and dry!!

We're on our 5th night now and so far we've had 4 dry nights. I insist he wees before he goes to bed and I leave a potty in his room (one of those potty chairs) for middle of the night emergencies but so far that has only been used once. We didn't do lifting (but we did with dd when we night trained her although she was younger).

throckenholt Wed 10-Aug-05 12:52:55

I can't remember how we did it with ds1 (he is only just 4 - so it is only a year ago !). I do remember the one time we tried to get him up and make him do a wee he just got very angry and upset - totally useless approach for him.

foxinsocks Wed 10-Aug-05 12:55:44

should also say that we tried night training around 3 months ago (when he was 3 and a half) and he definitely wasn't ready for it and wet the bed every night for around 5 days. I gave up after that (because he was upset as well) so I think you'll know fairly quickly if you're going to have success or not and if not, putting it off for a few months may well do the trick.

re lifting - we didn't do it with ds because he is such a deep sleeper. I tried it once and he was so comatose he had no idea what was going on. Dd on the otherhand would wake slightly when we lifted her and be conscious enough to do a wee and for some reason it worked with her.

bundle Wed 10-Aug-05 13:03:45

lifting isn't recommended, as this does encourage the bladder to be "lazy" and your ds is still very young. if you do decide to lift, you need to do this at different times every night. the brain-bladder link takes a while to form in children. my dd1 is 5 and still bedwets, and we use bedmats and don't make a big fuss, but we use stickers/treats when she's dry.

iota Wed 10-Aug-05 13:05:56

there seems to be a big variation in the age that children are ready to be dry at night - ds2 simply refused to wear a pull-up in bed from the start of potty-training and was dry at night from the age of 2.5, however, in conversation with other parents I found out that 2 of ds1's friends age 6 are still not dry at night.

I guess it's a matter of luck as to when they are ready

throckenholt Wed 10-Aug-05 13:07:30

ds1 would go for nights at a time being dry at night, then wet the bed a few nights running - never any real pattern - but gradually over time the wet nights became fewer and further apart.

bundle Wed 10-Aug-05 13:08:02

there can be 3 issues with bedwetting:
- child not waking when weeing because in deep sleep
- hormone vasopressin which puts the bladder into nighttime mode isn't being produced
- irritable/small bladder, often caused by too-frequent emptying of bladder eg when start potty training and ask child to go all the time. you can work out your child's expected volume by using their age, plus 1 times 30 (say 5+1=6, x30= 180ml - get them to pee in a cheapo measuring jug) - if it's a lot less than it should be then they are emptying their bladder before it's ready and this cause "irritability" ie bladder tells their brain it's full when it's not.

foxinsocks Wed 10-Aug-05 13:08:19

yes - both ds trained far later than dd so there's no rule it seems (though I did read if a parent had night training problems then there is an increased risk that the child would have similar problems)

bundle Wed 10-Aug-05 13:09:28

if one parent wet the bed then their children have a 40% chance of being a bedwetter, if both parents had a bedwetting history then this rises to 70%.

bundle Wed 10-Aug-05 13:10:02

(can you tell this is one of my favourite subjects?? )

northerner Wed 10-Aug-05 13:10:13

Hmmm. Dh was a bedwetter.

Thanks for the advice. Bit tricky this isn't it?

bundle Wed 10-Aug-05 13:11:36

half a million 5-16 yr olds regularly bedwet, as do 1/100 adults. incredibly common.

elliott Wed 10-Aug-05 13:14:44

I don't think there is an easy solution to this one - I've started threads before and there is a whole range of approaches it seems.
Ds1 is 3.8 and is variably dry in the mornings (probably about 50%). If we lift it is more like 90% - tend to go to him and ask if he wants a wee, and if too asleep to respond, we leave him - so he only goes if he's awake enough to participate iyswim!
Tried without nappies after a particularly good run a couple of months back - but by the second week he was wet practically every night so gave up. Don't know when I'm going to decide to give it another go yet!

foxinsocks Wed 10-Aug-05 13:14:57

bundle

it is tricky

Had ds proved not to be ready I would have put him back in more heavy duty nappies that hopefully would have kept all the wee in. I do think (like ds) that there are some children who have wet nappies but are ready to train (because they are just doing what they've got used to and weeing in the nappy because it's less hassle than getting up).

oliveoil Wed 10-Aug-05 13:16:03

Northener - sorry but I bet your dh is pleased you posted that he was a bedwetter, snort.

xx

elliott Wed 10-Aug-05 13:17:06

foxinsocks, I think ds1 may be at that point (although sometimes he definitely just wees in his sleep). The question is though, how do you stop them if they're not that bothered about the bed getting wet? Rewards are ok but I don't think they have much impact in the middle of the night....

northerner Wed 10-Aug-05 13:18:22



Dh will never know - not very computer literate either.

foxinsocks Wed 10-Aug-05 13:22:13

I think it's quite a hard one to crack elliot. Although we're having success now, I know we've had some successes before and then he's got 'lazy' again. For some reason, we've found rewards can work but it has to be something very sought after and we have to remind ds every time before he goes to bed. Have you got a potty in his room (for last minute dashes)?

Incidentally dd, who was a doddle to train for day and night, had a massive regression before she started school and wet the bed every night for around 3 weeks. We just washed the sheets every morning and said very little about it and then one morning it just stopped. Sometimes it's very hard to know what is going to work and when!

elliott Wed 10-Aug-05 13:25:43

yes we have potty in his room. I just can't cope with all that bed changing again (it may not bother him, but it sure as hell bothers me!!)
Have been trying the line of 'when you're 4 you won't need nappys in the night'....

foxinsocks Wed 10-Aug-05 13:30:49

is he your eldest elliot?

ds was definitely inspired by his older sister (they are in bunkbeds) - she also helped by saying stuff like 'you're such a big boy now!' which he loved.

By the way (without meaning to be gross), I discovered, quite accidentally, that mine had threadworms a few months ago. Apparently, these can cause persistent wetting at night because they irritate the child in their nether regions. I dewormed them and hopefully got rid of them and this time, the training has been more of a success but obviously I can't tell if that's the true reason.

futurity Wed 10-Aug-05 14:30:16

I've just done (well..doing at the moment) DS who is 3 1/2. He was dry in the morning though so I did the whole sticker chart thing with him the other week..saying if you wake up with dry nappy then you get a sticker. That worked for a few days and then no nappy! We had a few nights where he woke up (which he generally never does) so I put that down to being anxious about not having nappy but now he is fine (the lure of stickers helps!) although he had damp pants the other morning which was a leak rather than a flood!

dottydaisy Thu 11-Aug-05 11:24:25

Personnally I think that they are ready when they are ready. My son (2.7) had been dry through the day for a week when he said that he didn't want a nappy on for bed.If I am honest I really tried to discourage it as I have a new baby and basically couldn't be arsed with changing sheets in the middle of the night, let alone the washing! However he was adamant that he wanted to be nappy free so we tried it and he hasn't had one wet night since. To be honest it wouldn't have bothered me if he was in night nappies until he was five or six. My brother wet the bed until he was seven and I remember my poor mum worrying about what everyone else would say if they knew he was still wetting. She tried everything, she couldn't keep up with washing the sheets but still wouldn't have him wearing a night nappy for the shame of it.
What I am trying to say is that who cares when they do it, it will happen and at some point your son will just be ready! Good luck

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