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Nursey (at primary school) wont change my soiled child(54 Posts)
Hi all, just to vent spleen and put some feelers out. My Son (3y,5m) has just started Nursery school, attending half day sessions at a primary school. He has coped really well and loves attending, however our only area for concern being his toilet accidents.
1 - At home, we take him to the loo every 45 minutes or so - and he keeps dry. Despite telling the school staff this he mostly comes home in spare clothes having had a wee accident. (we send our own spare clothes but they keep using their own school clothes)
2 - Today I received a phone call at work informing my Son has had a toilet accident - a number and could I come and collect him!
He had to wait 30 mins for me to collect him and clean/dress him.
Later I spoke to the headmistress, who was unsure of the protocol of cleaning and helping soiling accidents and stated it was not in a teachers job description.
I am sure they must have dealt with this before.
My colleagues were staggered, as was I!
Any thoughts or experiences.
I am a bit speechless.My 2 attended a private nursery and would have been cleaned up.That is crazy!!
However,my dn nursery were a bit crackers and SIL got a phone call if he pooed as they couldn't clean him up I thought it was insane.
IME schools tend to refuse to clean a kid - even if it means they have to wait 30 mins whilst dirty
Its madness - but child protection, health and safety etc
Yet they manage at day nurseries etc - it makes no sense but that is the way it seems to be.
I know in our school (starts at reception, no nursery) we're not allowed to clean a child.
at our primary school the teachers of TA are not expected to do this. they ring the parents.
That is totally appalling - surely this should be on the job description of an early years primary school teacher? If not then their JDQs need a review!
Your poor ds - it's a bit heartbreaking the thought of him waiting to be changed
i imagine for the teacher its not pleasant to clear up a childs poo, however i do think making them wait 30mins for the parents is very over the top.
if i were you i would enrol him in a differnt nursery, maybe a day childcare place rather then a school. if your child is not reliable with his potty training yet, it can only cause him distress and make him even less reliable? he needs the adult to tell him it doesnt matter and clean him up, not to be told they are calling mummy.
your poor DC
Is it because of child protection,then?
But isn't that a bit mad,I mean surely the early years staff are crb checked!
I am not having a go at nursery teachers just at the apparent silliness of the situation!
Thanks all for your feedback so far, we all seem to feel the same way.
What a horrible way to treat your poor ds.
Not sure how it works for primary schools but nurseries are no longer allowed to refuse to take children who aren't potty trained, because of the Disability Discrimination Act... so presumably they have to change children who have accidents?
Might be worth reading up on the DDA.
my dd4 is nearly 4 and has attended nursery( in a primary school) since last august!she is SN and is still in nappies. i have had no problems with her being cleaned up, and she wears cloth nappies...i think do what edam says and look at the DDA!
(Even though your child doesn't have any disabilities, if they are breaching the DDA they have to change this policy.)
Our school only do this if the child has a care plan in place
Dd1 had the same thing - I work in a different town so she was stuck for a long time the same way. It does seem to be the Rules in school, tho obviously private nurseries have their own policies. I do think it's daft tho - mine was toilet trained, but was ill and so it was an unusual situation. I thought it was pretty appalling really - OK there are rules, but it seemed a horrible thing to do to a little one.
It's common practice but not nice for the child to have to wait 30min in his own poo. I would have changed him (am teacher) and in fact I have cleaned up a 9yr old who had a pooing accident (he had a very nasty tummy bug and just didn't get there in time)
Poor boy was mortified but I just told him not to worry that he was poorly and couldn't help it.
The trouble is it really isn't a teacher's job to do it. For nursery nurses it's part of their job description as they regularly deal with younger children but teachers don't tend to sign up for that aspect. A day nursery is set up for that kind of thing but schools just are not. The odd accident is expected but if it's a regular occurance they may be making a point.
Nuseries attached to schools are in the education sector not the "care" sector.
AFAIK children in an education setting are expected to be competant to deal with their own tolieting needs with gentle prompting.
If there is an issue of disability the school will usually have a care plan in place which involves a nominated special needs assistant dealing with the toileting NOT the teacher or general TA.
And taking a dc to the toliet every 45 minutes may well be counter productive as it tends to keep the bladder unstretched and small so maybe lengthen that time.
Just re-read your post and have to add that to be fair, you cannot expect a class teacher to escort a child to the toilet every 45min to keep him dry. In fact, you cannot even expect them to remind him to go by himself every 45min. This is school, albeit nursery class. It is a very different environment from a day nursery.
I take it he has started as an early admission as he's not 4 yet. He is still young and obviously not completely toilet trained. Schools just are not used to this at all as it is rare for NT children to start school when not completely dry in the day. Not his fault as he is still young but just how it is.
My dd goes to a nursery at a primary school and we had to sign a form at the beginning of the term saying that we were happy for the teachers to change her should an accident occur. If we were not happy they could contact us and we could go in and do it ourselves.
They were happy to do it so long as they had permission.
Since 1st September 2008 - 'care' and 'education' should not be separated
Schools are no longer allowed to discriminate in this way
You need to look at the 'Early Year Foundation Stage' (or give me a shout after Tuesday when I'll have more time & I will look it up for you)
This is not on
An Early Years Teacher is now required to provide 'care' and I am now required to provide 'education'- there isn't an opt out for Early Years children (up until the 31st Aug after their 5th Birthday)
Any reason why he couldn't clean himself up? Maybe you could show him how in case there's a next time?
When I started looking at nurseries for ds when he was about 3, I visited one which was highly highly recommended (and hard to get into). And on the day I visited there was a poor unfortunate boy who was a little upset about something and the owner of the nursery explained away his behavior by telling me that he had had an accident the day before and his mother had taken 2 hours to get there and he had had to wait in the hallway for 2 hours with soiled clothes (!!!!!!!) and was still a little upset about it. I was so appalled I left without finishing the tour. And my ds never even had accidents. I just couldn't imagine people caring for him who would do that to any child.
Personally, I would find a more loving and forgiving environment for your ds.
My DTs attend the nursery attached to DD1's primary school. There are 4 members of staff for 30 children - one teacher, 2 nursery nurses and one careworker dedicated to a particular little boy. There is no way they could be expected to remind one child every 45 minutes to go to the loo - I have spent a morning in there and it's extremely busy.
Prior to attending the school nursery, they were at a private pre-school which they started at when still in nappies, and they were changed when necessary. But there were 5 or 6 members of staff for about 20-24 children.
Having said that, on the one occasion when DD1 had a soiling accident in her reception year, the TA cleaned her up as best as possible. It's horrid that your son was made to wait for you to be cleaned up.
Never been a problem in the state schools where I've worked. I've taught in Reception, Year 1 and Year 2. If a child soiled themselves we would never leave them in their own poo. How degrading.
Teaching take charge of the situation, together with the school secretary if necessary.
how appalling, take him out and complain to ofsted
I work in a pre-school room of a private day nursery and if I did that to a child, I would be disciplined, if not sacked.
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