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Is it normal for playgroup not to allow potties, and expect kids to use toilet?

(44 Posts)
peggotty Wed 03-Oct-07 12:38:08

THe fact that they are saying my dd has to be potty-trained is another issue (and I now know they may be breaking the law) but they are also saying that they don't have potties and that the children have to go on a toilet. It all seems a bit harsh. I am in the process of training my dd but she will only go on the potty and is scared of the toilet at the moment.

The playgroup have enrolled my dd and I have been 3 times this week staying with her for the full 3 hours in case of accidents. She is refusing to go on their toilet. I don't know what to do. I have seen that other kids there are wearing pull ups but don't want to backtrack now with my dd and put her in pull ups or training pants as I've told her she now wears pants during the day.

Part of me thinks just stop taking her to this playgroup, but she has been enjoying it and it is REALLY handy for me. If I bring up the whole 'you're breaking the law' argument with them then it will just sour the relationship with them and I won't be able to take her anyway. I am getting so stressed about it I don't know what to do. I asked today about leaving her next week but the woman I spoke to just muttered I would have to speak to the leader (who wasn't there today) about it. Part of me wonders if they know that what they are doing isn't actually within the law. Any advice? Please?

peggotty Wed 03-Oct-07 12:51:10

Sorry, bumping. Desperate for some advice.

ruddynorah Wed 03-Oct-07 12:58:56

is there another group she could go to? or how about taking a potty with you?

LadyMuck Wed 03-Oct-07 13:00:03

Absolutely standard ime. The aim is to get the kids ready for school etc (where potties are not provided). Day nurseries etc will usually have potties as well.

It may not be the right playgroup for you. Be careful of using the legal defence though: the law isn't actually that black and white on this issue.

ruddynorah Wed 03-Oct-07 13:01:28

what kind of toilets do they have? are they full size adult ones? dd's at a day nursery and there they have mini child size toilets as well as pottys, they have to mirror what you're doing at home.

DirtyGertiefromnumber30 Wed 03-Oct-07 13:06:08

yes, normal ime. I think that's why most playgroups have a minimum age of 2.5
Ds went wearing pull-ups and was more or less toilet trained. If he had any accidents though, i had to go and collect him.

peggotty Wed 03-Oct-07 13:07:26

Hi thanks for replying ruddynorah and Ladymuck. I have been taking a potty but they will only allow that as long as I am there with her. They are full size adult toilets.

I don't want to bring the whole law issue up ladymuck as I'm sure it's not black and white plus it is likely to antagonise them against me and I am wuss, not to mention! grin

I think that this whole playgroup thing is making the potty training process so much more stressful for me AND dd tbh. She is actually doing pretty well, day 5 and she's used the potty to pee and poo every day (with accidents too of course!).

peggotty Wed 03-Oct-07 13:08:15

I don't think the majority of 2.5 year olds are potty trained!!

FrannyandZombie Wed 03-Oct-07 13:09:52

It's not the case at my son's nursery. I think it's dogmatic and unfair to enforce rules like this for no good reason.

Personally I wouldn't be happy leaving my child somewhere that they believe all children must be at the same developmental stage when they decide they should be - and cannot be flexible enough to allow individual differences and preferences.

LadyMuck Wed 03-Oct-07 13:11:11

Well if you are only starting to potty train now, then it may be worth delaying her start at the playgroup by a coupel of weeks. I did this with ds1 when he was due to start - a new baby had got in the way and it was easier to start him after half-term when he was trianed and sorted.

I know that you're not looking for help on training, but honestly, getting them onto the toilet quickly is the way to go. You don't want to be faffing around with potties for any more than the first week or training if you can help it. If the toilet training is the only issue against this playgroup, and you're only on day 5 of training then I would stick it out.

peggotty Wed 03-Oct-07 13:22:53

Ladymuck I am also pg with baby due end of jan. Places at this playgroup are quite rare and obviously I don't want to be starting her just as baby is born. Even if she is fully potty trained by then, she could regress with new baby on the scene anyway. I agree it would be easier to get her straight on to a toilet but she is scared of them and I think that at least getting her out of nappies is a step in the right direction.

Franny part of me agrees with you, it does seem unfair to expect all kids to be at same stage.. I expect the people who work there have just all decided amoungst themselves that they just don't want to deal with nappies and potties. I really don't think there are that many 2 and a half year old who are both out of nappies AND using a toilet.

peggotty Wed 03-Oct-07 13:25:06

WHilst I've been gabbing on her she's pooed her pants!! BAD mummy!

DirtyGertiefromnumber30 Wed 03-Oct-07 13:27:25

maybe i didnt explain myself properly.

Where i live, you cant start your dc at a playgroup until they are 2.5, and only then if they are dry in the day.

My ds didnt start playgroup until he was nearly 3 because he wasnt toilet trained until then.

DirtyGertiefromnumber30 Wed 03-Oct-07 13:28:52

ah... and thats probably why they want them toilet trained! wink

harleyweendemon Wed 03-Oct-07 13:30:58

i didnt think they took kids at all unless they were properly toilet trained

23balloons Wed 03-Oct-07 13:32:46

I can see why you are upset but would it really be fair for the Playgroup staff to spend their time emptying and cleaning potties? I really wouldn't even want to clean poo out of a potty even if it were my own child.

peggotty Wed 03-Oct-07 13:38:16

No I don't expect them to do it - I was just wondering if this was the norm or not - no experience of how things like this work at playgroups - have only got experience of my sister's dd's playgroup where they accepted nappy wearers and had potties in addition to toilets.

I already knew that they expected them potty trained, although they should probably change the wording on their website to toilet trained really!

Magicmayhem Wed 03-Oct-07 13:42:00

Hi peggotty, why are some children in pullups and your DD has to be dry?? this doesn't make sense to me unless I have the wrong end of the stick. Are their steps and a toilet seat for your DD to use at the pre-school.

I work in a preschool and to be honest a potty is a real fag to empty out.. clean.. dry.. we don't ban them but we all tend to groan together when we see them...

As to not taking them until they are potty trained.. ring up your local LEA to see what their policy is...

CaptainUnderpants Wed 03-Oct-07 13:46:53

Why not try and work with the staff at playgroup about getting your DD over her fear of toilets . At our playgroup we use the kiddies toilet seats on the adult toilets ( no kiddy toilets as it is in chirch hall ).

Playgropus try and encorage the child to have independence and once she is toilet trained then what happens then - a member of staff will have to go with her everytime to ensure that the potty isn't tipped over and that it is emptied straight away.

Why is your DD scared and try and work that problem out first with the help of the staff. I know it is really difficult but the more you enforce use of potty the more it enforces her fear.

happystory Wed 03-Oct-07 13:52:12

I'm not clear how old your dd and the other children are? Playgroups should not refuse children because they are not toilet trained, as some children do take ages to 'get' it and they would be missing out on the whole group experience.

I agree you shouldn't go back to pull ups. But IME playgroup workers would rather deal with the odd accident (which tend to be mainly wees)than faff around with potties. Nurseries for younger children are obvioulsy different.

I've worked in a playgroup where we took children from 2.5 and although some children were a little worried about the toilets, we had a step and would hold the children securely if needs be.

Peer pressure is a wonderful thing!

peggotty Wed 03-Oct-07 13:54:32

Magicmayhem - I don't know why some are in pullups, seems a bit illogical to me as I would warrant a guess that those kids are not dry. There are no steps or toilet seats either. It just seems to me that the staff just don't want to do it, but will turn a blind eye to pull-ups etc as they will make their job easier. Sorry if that sounds harsh! I COULD send my dd in pullups or training pants but I think that they defeat the purpose of potty training personally.

I think I am just going to take her out of the playgroup, as potty training her is not going to be a fast matter, I can already tell!

CaptainUnderpants Wed 03-Oct-07 13:58:02

I would ask the playgroup leader why they dont have steps or kiddy toilet seats , we do and I think that to encourage a childs indepedence that they are very important - I dont think OFSTED would be too please about it .

peggotty Wed 03-Oct-07 14:00:28

Dd is 2.8. The staff have just been leaving me too it whilst I've been there. Noone has talked to me about how training has been going etc or how to help her get over the fear of toilets (which I have told them about) I think she just doesn't feel secure enough to relax and 'let go' on the toilet.

All the kids get taken to the toilet at a certain time every day ( they can ask if they need the toilet in between) and I've noticed that some of the women are not very patient with the kids i.e 'oh come on x, have you been, do you need to go, hurry up etc'.

It's such a shame because my dd is SO ready for the playgroup environment and has enjoyed the 3 days we've been but is going to have to be excluded because she can't use a toilet.

Magicmayhem Wed 03-Oct-07 14:02:35

I think thats whats confusing me... why do you feel pressured to have your DD dry, when other kids are in pull ups...
I personaly like pull up, as they are easy to pull up and down and catch any leaks smile.. for the kids though not meshock

happystory Wed 03-Oct-07 14:03:32

It should be the duty of her keyworker to work on this with you, has she got one?

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