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Ford Econo Check Feedback thread

(68 Posts)
AnnMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 21-Oct-10 12:08:29

Thank you for trying the new Econo Check from Ford.

By way of background, Ford asked MN to find 10 MNers who had a Ford car to try their new Econo Check data loggers - full details here.

All selected reviewers will receive a £50 John Lewis voucher and a £15 money-off voucher for their next service at a Ford Dealer.

Here are the questions Ford would like your feedback on:

Some of you may not be able to answer all of the questions until the project is completed so please answer what you can and return to the thread to answer the other questions when possible.

Many thanks
MNHQ

Initial impressions:

Did you know anything about Econo Check before you signed up to try it on Mumsnet? If so, where did you hear about it?
Overall how easy or difficult did you find having the Ford Econo Check done on your car and your driving?

Post Report questions:

What were your expectations of Econo Check prior to receiving your report?
Did it make you more aware of the way you drive? For example, lowering your motorway speed or driving more smoothly in traffic.
Has Econo Check helped you make savings? If so, approx how much money do you think you have saved on fuel this month?
From your Econo Check report, what has surprised you most?
Did it make you more aware of any of your particular driving behaviours?
How are you adjusting your driving style as a result?

Econo Driver Training Course

Did you take up the offer of a free 90-minute Econo Driver Training Course (worth £80) as part of this Mumsnet project?
How was this? What driving tips did you pick up?

Second Econo Check follow up

Did you take up the offer of an additional Econo Check to see how much your improved driving style is saving you at the fuel pump?
If so, how was this? Had you saved money on fuel?

Overall questions:

How important is it for you to reduce your CO2 emissions?
Would you consider buying a lower CO2 vehicle in the future?
What do you think of Ford offering this service to their customers?
Has it made you feel any differently about Ford?

Any other comments/ questions?

OP’s posts: |
gingercat12 Thu 21-Oct-10 12:33:32

Initial impressions:

Did you know anything about Econo Check before you signed up to try it on Mumsnet? If so, where did you hear about it?
I have not heard about it before.

Overall how easy or difficult did you find having the Ford Econo Check done on your car and your driving?
The garage made it very easy for me. They picked up the car, cleaned it (!!!!), fitted the gadget and gave me advice both on the necessary repairs and driving style. They were, so far, very courteous, and the prices they offered were reasonable. It was a pleasure to deal with them. I only mention this, because I had problems with this very garage in the not too distant past.
I have the device in the car now, and I feel very conscious of it. Any time an idiot pulls off in front of me and I have to break sharply I try to memorise the situation, so I could justify the expected depressing results to myself.

Other comment
The timing of this check up is immaculate. Having the repairs done before winter means that I will change my tyres before winter, so I will probably be safer on the ice and snow.

craftynclothy Thu 21-Oct-10 12:41:46

Not got the report yet or any of the other follow up but here's my answers for teh first bit

Initial impressions:

Did you know anything about Econo Check before you signed up to try it on Mumsnet? If so, where did you hear about it?

No, I hadn't heard about it before the thread on Mumsnet.

Overall how easy or difficult did you find having the Ford Econo Check done on your car and your driving?

Although I had a good overall experience of Ford when having the Econo logger fit I did not find it as easy as I expected. Firstly I was told it would be a 20 minute appointment at 2pm. When I got there they did 2 different checks of the car first before fitting the data logger. This took an hour. They then found a slow puncture which they fixed free of charge which took another hour. Obviously the latter couldn't be helped but the other stuff still took an hour rather than 20 minutes. Having expected it only to take 20 minutes I hadn't brought much to entertain the kids so I felt a bit stressed trying to keep them entertained without disturbing the other customers. I think it would have been better to make it very clear that they do various checks on the car first and that work may need to be undertaken so while they hope to have it fit in 20 minutes it could be longer.

Once it was fit I found driving around with it fine. I didn't really notice it was there other than thinking "I wonder how my driving is" a lot of the time grin

Wigeon Thu 21-Oct-10 12:59:44

Our data logger is being removed today, so have't yet received the report, but will post feedback later on.

In the meantime, how do we get more information on the Econo Driver Training Course?

Wigeon Thu 21-Oct-10 18:00:35

Did you know anything about Econo Check before you signed up to try it on Mumsnet?

No, never heard of it.

Overall how easy or difficult did you find having the Ford Econo Check done on your car and your driving?

DH took DD to get it fitted - as they predicted it took about an hour, but the garage was near a park so he took her there. It was therefore very easy to have it fitted - just left the car and picked it up again. They did offer to collect the car from our house, but they would have needed it the whole day so we decided to deliver it.

Data logger was removed today - took about half an hour (they tried to charge us but DH told them we'd won a competition, they checked and immediately said he didn't have to pay). Again, pretty straightforward.

Will post again when we receive the report!

bosch Thu 21-Oct-10 21:47:37

The data logger has been removed and I'm waiting to receive the results.

Did you know anything about Econo Check before you signed up to try it on Mumsnet?

No, never heard of it.

Overall how easy or difficult did you find having the Econo Check done on your car and your driving?

The garage picked the car up and returned it when they said they would with the econocheck fitted. They had cleaned the car inside and out (whether it needed it or not blush)

I didn't give as much thought to my driving style as others - I wanted it to check my real driving style!

Dh tried to remove it so we could post it back but was a bit nervous of damaging steering column as it seemed to be attached v firmly. (He's normally v good with this sort of thing, I was surprised he couldn't remove it, might be good for Ford to give clearer instructions to other customers to reassure them that they can remove it?) Anyway, I stopped off at the garage the next (working) day and they removed it in minutes.

Will post again when we receive the report.

ChippyMinton Fri 22-Oct-10 11:08:26

Just signing in as my data logger is being fitted on Tuesday next week.

AnnMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 22-Oct-10 11:22:40

We noticed a few of you had mentioned that the Ford dealer had made recommendations about your tyres - we asked Ford about this and this is what they say: -


"Tyres are one of the most important safety items on a car. They are the only part of your vehicle touching the road and they brake, they steer and they grip. One in four vehicles out there have a dangerous or illegal tyre fitted and the stopping distances increase significantly the lower the tread depth. In fact, according to Continental, in some conditions a tread depth of just 3mm can increase braking distance by up to 70%. The police in the UK change their tyres at 3mm as a matter of routine, for safety reasons. Illegal tyres (1.6mm or less) can result in a fine of up to £2,500 and 3 penalty points"


Hope that helps reassure you - any problems at all please email insight@mumsnet.com

MNHQ

OP’s posts: |
gingercat12 Mon 25-Oct-10 16:14:23

Just had the data logger removed and my tyres changed. I know Mumsnetters are very savvy, but a word of caution. The salesman I was dealing with was not in when I had to pay, and I was almost charged for the Ford Econo check (and the front tracking which we agreed would be free if I have both front tyres changed). The man at the service desk apologised and instantly changed the invoice, but it is a good job I was able to concentrate with toddler in tow.

Am now slightly nervously waiting for the results. Nice salesman will call me tomorrow, I suppose he wants to tell me about the £15 off our next service.

bosch Mon 25-Oct-10 22:55:28

Have got my results.

Post Report questions:

What were your expectations of Econo Check prior to receiving your report?

I'm not sure really, I guess I thought it would record my speed and tell me to slow down a bit!

Did it make you more aware of the way you drive? For example, lowering your motorway speed or driving more smoothly in traffic.

Yes, I tried quite hard not to over-rev the car when driving (it's a diesel and seems to like revs to be quite high before you change gear, I tried to get a feeling for what it sounds like before you hit 2000revs). However, I'd have to try REALLY hard to slow down on the motorway, and I think this is where I let myself down! I have (for bizarre reasons that I can't quite remember here) driven the 18 miles to work with a box of eggs on the dashboard and that makes you drive REAL smoothly! I still remember that if I'm tempted to burn somebody off at the lights. (its a diesel estate, so that's not actully going to happen but a girl can dream...)

Has Econo Check helped you make savings? If so, approx how much money do you think you have saved on fuel this month?

Errr, early days yet! It estimates that I ought to be able to save (potentially) £96 a year if I drive more economically!

From your Econo Check report, what has surprised you most?

My absolute favourite bit (made me hoot with laughter when I opened and read it at work this lunchtime) was at the beginning where it says 'Congratulations! You already shift gears like a professional'!!!' My personal rating for gear shifting was 77%.

My rating for anticipation was 53% but I didn't understand the evidence as it only recorded one incidence of hard braking. I guess this is where you need Ford to explain some of the detail, because the explanation doesn't really come across in the summary.

My rating for high speed was 65% - I need to slow down on the mway, but it had a good way of setting that in context - i would have lost less than 4 min journey time (ie 1 min each journey) - i wouldn't have been late for work or picking the kids up from school, if I'd limited my speed to 65mph. Lesson learnt!

Did it make you more aware of any of your particular driving behaviours?

Yes, as mentioned above, I drive too fast on the mway. I also spent as much as 19 minutes one day with the engine idling! Not much I can do about the traffic, but will take more note of congestion stats that I see through work (this wasn't a busman's holiday for me, honest!)

Also note that my average trip length most days I don't work is under 3 miles - the sort of statistic that is used to berate women for having the audacity to do the school run in a car and keep honest working men from getting to their work...however, my journeys would be 'multi-stop', ie school first, then supermarket, then library or playgroup. I couldn't get so much done if I didn't have use of the car. However, it did advise that the car is not getting up to temp on 22% of my journeys, which I know isn't good for the car or the environment...

How are you adjusting your driving style as a result?

If I get to do the second econocheck, I'd make a note of what I do/where and how I drive for the week. I'd also try to make sure that dh didn't drive (we share a car but I use it 95% of the time!) I will not be going over 65mph on the mway, and I'm going to try to think about turning the engine off if I think I'll be stopped for 20 secs or more, as the check recommends.

Thanks MN and Ford, that's been really informative. Am hoping I do get the driver training course and second econo check?

omg, sorry, just previewed, that's a bit long isn't it blush

KristinaM Wed 27-Oct-10 09:28:12

Initial impressions:

Did you know anything about Econo Check before you signed up to try it on Mumsnet?

had never heard of it befroe mumsnet

Overall how easy or difficult did you find having the Ford Econo Check done on your car and your driving?

very easy - they collected it from and returned it to the office. took about 2 hours

we didnt try to change our driving style at all

we asked about teh training course but the dealer didnt knwo what we were talking abouthmm

Wigeon Wed 27-Oct-10 18:48:32

DH and I were both driving the car (our only car) during the test period.

What were your expectations of Econo Check prior to receiving your report?

I do think DH and I already actively think about driving as efficiently as possible (for both cost and environmental reasons), but I wasn't sure whether we actually did, so I was interested to see whether our smugness could be vindicated, or whether we should eat humble pie.

Did it make you more aware of the way you drive? For example, lowering your motorway speed or driving more smoothly in traffic.

I did think about the gadget being in the car while I was driving, and tried to especially do the things I already try to do (eg driving smoothly - eg not speeding away from lights, or changing gear so the revs are as low as possible). But I'm not sure it radically changed my driving style. DH says in answer to this question "yeah, probably".

Has Econo Check helped you make savings? If so, approx how much money do you think you have saved on fuel this month?

Not sure that it has as we scored quite well! [smug] - excellent / 84% for gear shifting and excellent / 84% for anticipation, although good / 64% for speed, but as mentioned below, I don't feel inclined to drive below 65mph more often because of this report.

From your Econo Check report, what has surprised you most?

That we had done so well and there really isn't much room for improvement grin! Also, the amount of time the engine spent idling - a significant amount of this was during a long trip we took, where we were in lots of motorway traffic jams. Our total drive time over the week was 10hrs 56 mins, and the engine was idling for 56 mins of this. Would it have been more fuel-efficient to turn off the engine when stationary, and then turned it back on again, rather than to have left it idling, I wonder (genuine question)?

Did it make you more aware of any of your particular driving behaviours? How are you adjusting your driving style as a result?

Yes, in particular, changing gear to get to low revs quickly, driving smoothly. DH thinks that I could try to maintain a more constant speed on the motorway, rather than slowing down and speeding up (even fairly gradually), which I will try to do! (he isn't particularly critical of my driving in general so no need to start a AIBU thread!).

Did you take up the offer of a free 90-minute Econo Driver Training Course (worth £80) as part of this Mumsnet project?

MNHQ - as asked before please let us know how to take up this offer! I would like to do it.

Did you take up the offer of an additional Econo Check to see how much your improved driving style is saving you at the fuel pump?

MNHQ - how do we take up a second econocheck?

How important is it for you to reduce your CO2 emissions?

This is reasonably important to me, but to be honest, not if the inconvenience is too great. So, for example, I would prefer to take the train to Edinburgh rather than fly, partly for environmental reasons, but I would still fly on holiday to Europe rather than holiday in England. In terms of the Econocheck, it suggested that we should drive at 65mph more often as above 65mph your fuel consumption increases disproportionately, and our total drive time would have been 17 mins more. Unfortunately this makes me think that I'm glad I drove above 65mph (eg on my motorway journeys) because I saved 17 minutes!

Would you consider buying a lower CO2 vehicle in the future?

Yes, definitely. This would definitely be one of the factors in choosing a new car, although not the primary factor.

What do you think of Ford offering this service to their customers?

I think it's a good service to offer. Although I'm not sure if I would have paid to have it done.

Has it made you feel any differently about Ford?

Yes, slightly more positive I think.

Any other comments/ questions?

None apart from the two above! Thanks for the opportunity (ps when will the John Lewis vouchers be sent? wink smile)

OliviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 28-Oct-10 18:09:50

Hi all
We have a couple of replies to your questions from Ford:

Q: Would it have been more fuel-efficient to turn off the engine when stationary, and then turned it back on again, rather than to have left it idling, I wonder
A: Yes, it is more fuel efficient to turn engine off for 20 seconds or more and then turn it back on, than to idle.

Q: how do we take up Econo Driving course and then a second econocheck?
A: We will be in touch shortly with instructions for receiving the Econo Driver training. Then we will make a second Econo Check available to measure the improvement.

HTH - again, do email insight@mumsnet.com if you have further queries.
MNHQ

Concordia Fri 29-Oct-10 18:13:57

*Did you know anything about Econo Check before you signed up to try it on Mumsnet?
If so, where did you hear about it?*
no, i had never heard of it.

Overall how easy or difficult did you find having the Ford Econo Check done on your car and your driving?
it was very easy, no problem at all. but then i am a sahm at the moment, if i was working full time it might be more hassle to get a time the garage could come and fit it to the car.

What were your expectations of Econo Check prior to receiving your report?
i don't know i had any really, i was just mildy curious. i was worried it would tell me i was an aggressive driver as i had forgotten the thing was on for most of the week!

*Did it make you more aware of the way you drive? For example, lowering your motorway speed or driving more smoothly in traffic.
Has Econo Check helped you make savings? If so, approx how much money do you think you have saved on fuel this month?*
well we didn't drive much the week of the check as we weren't visiting relatives at the weekend or whatever, so it told me that by making changes i could save around £78 a year, which i guess is around £6-7 a month. as we normally drive more i suspect we could make bigger changes than this. actually the amount of savings are pretty significant really to us at the moment. it says we could save 12% of our fuel and i would definitely buy petrol if it was 12% cheaper than average. if we could save say, £12-15 a month it would really help us. however, i still suspect the biggest change we could probably make is to drive less full stop.

From your Econo Check report, what has surprised you most?
that i wasn't actually as bad as i thought, mostly greens and yellows grin.

Did it make you more aware of any of your particular driving behaviours?
dh drove the car at the weekend and his results were better blush. i know he is a smoother driver and hard braking / accelerating came up as an issue on mine. i need to get out of the habit. but DD falls asleep in the car during hard accelerations and it is very difficult to get her to nap! what a ridiculous excuse!

How are you adjusting your driving style as a result?
i need to remember to drive a bit more smoothly my anticipation ratings were mainly orange.
also i was caught in a traffic jam due to pesky temporary lights and was idling for seven minutes on one journey. i didn't realise before the check that i should turn the engine off if i was expected to be stopped more than 20 seconds. i always thought restarting it took more energy. but apparently it doesn't. so with all those pesky temporary lights around i think i will probably save money on this.

*Did you take up the offer of a free 90-minute Econo Driver Training Course (worth £80) as part of this Mumsnet project?
How was this? What driving tips did you pick up?*
oh, haven't been offered this yet, just had a voucher for £15 off it (and decided i didn't have a spare £79 to pay for myself.

*Did you take up the offer of an additional Econo Check to see how much your improved driving style is saving you at the fuel pump?
If so, how was this? Had you saved money on fuel?*
n/a

*How important is it for you to reduce your CO2 emissions?
Would you consider buying a lower CO2 vehicle in the future?*
it is important to us all.
yes i would consider buying a lower co2 vehicle in the future. although as far as understand the biggest co2 production is actually in car production itself, so in fact, contrary to popular belief, keeping your old car is actually the most environmentally friendly thing to do.

*What do you think of Ford offering this service to their customers?
Has it made you feel any differently about Ford?*
i think ford historically have quite high emission vehicles so i am interested that they are doing this. apart from the gas guzzling i am happy with the c-max.

Any other comments/ questions?
at the bottom it says, your personal bp fuel cashback voucher code ***. of course my eyes alighted on the word cashback. does anyone now what this is and how i use it - just fill up at bp and take the code in???

Concordia Fri 29-Oct-10 18:15:04

oh, some questions came out bold and other bits haven't. sorry.

Concordia Fri 29-Oct-10 18:24:06

i quite enjoyed looking at all the stats too! i like figures and stuff. depressing to know how long i spent stationary, it cost as much as driving four miles that week, will def turn the engine off.
and have just realised that my anticipation rating was 44% blush
guess i need the training more than wigeon. my speed was 98% though cause we didnt' go on any motorways / dual carriageways at all.

ChristmasTrulyReigns Sun 31-Oct-10 00:29:01

Initial impressions:

Did you know anything about Econo Check before you signed up to try it on Mumsnet?

No not heard of it before. but have since noticed one of the dads at Football training drives a Focus with Econo check all logo-ed up all over it. grin

If so, where did you hear about it?

N/A.

Overall how easy or difficult did you find having the Ford Econo Check done on your car and your driving?

I absolutely abhor using my local Ford Dealer after 3 years of rubbish service on my Galaxy. Now it's just out of warranty, I swore I would never set foot in there again. You'll never guess who lucked out for fitting my data logger? Yes, I'm back with them for this. sad
Having said that the service I've received regards to the data-logger has been fine, they picked up my car from the house and dropped it back 2 hours later which was fine.
I haven't had it removed yet as I needed the car all half-term and they want it all day so that can fix the stuff that they didn't get right whilst it was under warranty. I have also allowed them to persuade me to let them change my brake pads and despite my principles I caved. grin
I am aghast at the posters who have had their car cleaned by Ford - all the times mine has been in (about 12 in 3 years) they haven't even bothered to remove the plastic seat cover - leaving me to dispose of it. shock

I have noticed a distinct difference in the drive of my car - it is really struggling on gear change and not is very hesitant almost to the degree that I feel it is getting dangerous to drive as, if I need to move fast to get out of a situation, I don't think the car would perform. I don't know if it can be related to the fitting of the Data Logger, but it seems to have started when it was fitted. I shall phone on Monday and get them to look at it on Tuesday when they remove it.
I'm not sure if this will skew any of my results at all?

ChippyMinton Sun 31-Oct-10 07:43:41

Grrr. After a week of careful driving i got stuck in the queue leaving legoland fireworks last night. That won't help my statistics!

Eddas Mon 01-Nov-10 11:33:57

Initial impressions*:*

I hadn't heard of econo check before this.

Having the check was easy. The intial check took a little longer than the 45mins stated on booking but not too long. I found some of the 'safety' checks rather odd, namely the noting of all scratches and minor dents in the body work and wheel trims. I could quite fathom why scratches of dents would have any impact on the safety of the car, perhaps it says something about how the car is driven!! * Disclaimer * I have to drive down narrow lanes frequently occupied but large vans(who shouldn't use the route) and consequently end up 'in the hedge' so to speak!!

Post Report questions*:*

Not yet received, although I had the device taken off my car 2 weeks ago today

Econo Driver Training Course

Not been offered this yet, presumably this comes with/after the report?

Second Econo Check follow up

Don't know yet

Overall questions*:*

I'll answer this later

Any other comments*/* questions*?*

craftynclothy Tue 02-Nov-10 12:43:15

Anyone know how long between having the data logger removed and getting the results? Ours was removed on the 13th October and we've not received the report yet confusedhmm

gingercat12 Wed 03-Nov-10 08:42:48

crafty I have not received resutls either. Mine was removed on the 25th October.

I did not receive a £15 off our next service either.

craftynclothy Wed 03-Nov-10 10:04:41

Dh received our results via email this morning hmm. I assume they went to him because he's the registered keeper.

gingercat12 the voucher was attached to the report in the email.

Post Report questions:

What were your expectations of Econo Check prior to receiving your report?

I was expecting a physical booklet as shown to me when I had the data logger fit. Post hasn't been yet though so it may still come. Other than than I didn't really know what to expect.

Did it make you more aware of the way you drive? For example, lowering your motorway speed or driving more smoothly in traffic.

Actually I was a bit confused by this. Our speed ratings were all very good or excellent and the only recommendation was to drive at 65 on the motorway. I understand this is more fuel efficient but doesn't match up with what dh & I were taught when learning to drive (re: driving at an appropriate speed) so I'm not sure we'd follow that recommendation.

Has Econo Check helped you make savings? If so, approx how much money do you think you have saved on fuel this month?

I was surprised at how well we already drive. We had been joking about how bad it would be (particularly my driving). In fact following the week of testing dh told me I drive my diesel car like a petrol car and explained what I should do differently, yet the only day my rating wasn't very good was the first day the data logger was on confused. The report estimated we could save £34 a year (9%). I was surprised it was so little tbh as I didn't think my driving was very efficient.

From your Econo Check report, what has surprised you most?

How good our driving is. Actually it's made me feel more confident about it because I always think my driving isn't very good here (I learned to drive in a much quieter area). I was very surprised that my results were nearly as good as dh's as he did an advanced driving course and has more experience than me (as well as learning to drive in similar traffic/roads to where we now live).

Did it make you more aware of any of your particular driving behaviours?

I think it could do with a bit more information on how to improve driving. For example, it mentions changing gear at about 2,000 rpm, which is useful and more stuff like this would be good. I hadn't realised I should change gear that early and actually dh explained to me the other week that the way I drive doesn't make the car accelerate any faster it just makes me feel that it will. I've since adapted this (well, still getting used to it) and it's true.

How are you adjusting your driving style as a result?

Changing gear earlier and not revving the car so much.

gingercat12 Wed 03-Nov-10 14:46:19

Thanks crafty smile

My report has arrived with the £15 off your next service voucher.

Post Report questions:

What were your expectations of Econo Check prior to receiving your report?
I was not sure what to expect, but definitely dreaded the report on my driving style. I also had the impression that I hardly drove at all, and all the journeys were quite short, so I expected they would recommend less tooting around the village running errands.

Did it make you more aware of the way you drive? For example, lowering your motorway speed or driving more smoothly in traffic.
I was trying to improve my driving style, but in the end I just drove the way I normally would. You cannot pretend to be someone else for a whole week.

Has Econo Check helped you make savings? If so, approx how much money do you think you have saved on fuel this month?
It is hard to break it down into months, as some months we have long journeys, and other months we just make short journeys, but I would think we would save around £10 a month or less which is not be sniffed at. If used the car for commuting (which we might in the future), the amount would be much higher, as I was made aware of a number of issues which did not come up in the week the data logger was installed (e.g. usage of the heating and directing it on the windows, etc.).

From your Econo Check report, what has surprised you most?
That it was quite complimentary.

Did it make you more aware of any of your particular driving behaviours?
I managed to stop putting my foot on the clutch too early before stopping.

How are you adjusting your driving style as a result?
I will probably try to stick to 65 mph on the motorway as an when it is appropriate, and I am not holding up the traffic.

Overall questions:

How important is it for you to reduce your CO2 emissions?
It is quite important, but so far I mainly concentrated on insulating our home.

Would you consider buying a lower CO2 vehicle in the future?
Only if prices were lower, and there was a large secondary market available.

What do you think of Ford offering this service to their customers?
I think is very good, but to be fair it is expected of Ford as a market leader.

Has it made you feel any differently about Ford?
No. I quite like my car, and all the neighbours have Fords (sometimes I have to check the number plates just to make sure which one is mine), so I had a very good opinion of Ford anyway.
My opinion on the local Ford dealer / service also improved.

Any other comments/ questions?
Thank you very much for running this project, it was quite useful for me.

Eddas Fri 05-Nov-10 13:29:47

I'm still waiting for my results too. Any way of chasing them?

AnnMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 05-Nov-10 16:11:58

eddas - would you like me to give ford your name so they can chase for you (ATM they don't know who you are)

OP’s posts: |

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