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Ed Balls, Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families will be here for a live webchat on Weds 9th Sept from 1-2pm

(338 Posts)
carriemumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 07-Sep-09 15:11:55

Message withdrawn

squeaver Wed 09-Sep-09 21:12:30

MNHQ - saw the pic on Twitter. Nice to see you got Boden-ed up for the Minister grin

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 09-Sep-09 21:15:11

Message withdrawn

upamountain Wed 09-Sep-09 21:59:17

Agree with Lingle:

Mumsnet Sir Jim Rose for a webchat please if you can.

I want to know why as Ed says:

"It’s true that they won’t be able to start reception after they turn 5 as some of you have asked – Jim did look at that option but he advised us that it wouldn’t be a good way to support their learning and progress."

This happens in Scotland if your equivalent to summer born child there (Jan,Feb) isn't ready you can start reception (P1) the year after.
Why would holding a child back in England who if they had been born 1 or 2 months later would have been in the next school year anyway.There is less difference in age between these children and the September ones in the following year than the September ones in the year they are entering.Your child could easily be ready but clearly many feel their children (particularly boys) aren't.It is the whole inflexibility of the system.
I've got two summer borns and dd is bright near top of the year by year 3/4 but started out in bottom groups when assessed in year 1 obviously due to age.Ds will start next year at just 4 is a late talker and is clearly not ready as still needs play/social skills from nursery.Missing reception would just not benefit at all as Year 1 is already numeracy/literacy based moving away from learning through play.I know i am talking to no-one here as the webchat has finished but Ed mentioned there would be a thread?

"It would be great to hear the views of Mumsnetters... and Mumsnet have said they will start a thread on this after the chat has finished."

Where is the thread?

ronshar Wed 09-Sep-09 22:33:34

I am really impressed that Mr Balls seems to have a sense of humour. I thought that was not required in the Labour party!

I am not impressed that we didn't get a proper answer with regards to secondary standards and in particular for those pupils who are academically advanced.

30%. We should hang our heads in shame. The minimum % of children leaving school with a sound knowledge of Maths, English, Science, a second language and ICT should be 100%. Whether this be tested by GCSE or an equivalent for SEN pupils.

lingle Thu 10-Sep-09 08:40:25

"I know i am talking to no-one here"

upamountain - I'm still reading!

I think the only reason we haven't succeeded in getting the Government to overturn Rose (who simply failed to consider the evidence) is that we don't form a natural community as our only link it late-maturing summer-born kids. Whereas if we all shared, say, a faith or a special need it would be easier to get together.

If only mumsnet could help us gather everyone together..........

paranoid2 Thu 10-Sep-09 10:08:37

Keep talking Lingle. I love your posts especially about summer borns which is a sore point with me smile

Madsometimes Thu 10-Sep-09 11:17:14

I'm listening to you Lingle! I have children in year 2 and year 5, both summer born.

When I discussed the summer born problem with the school, they agreed it was a problem. In fact, the senior teacher would like further powers. She said that the problem is not confined to children starting in reception not ready for school. She would like to be able to keep some of her 10 year olds in primary school for a further year. Every year she says goodbye to some year 6 children, knowing full well that they are not equipped to deal with either the academic or social skills required to thrive in secondary school. My dc do not attend a bad primary school, in fact it is Ofsted good. The primary school is not failing these children, it is simply that individual children do all develop at a different rate.

Why send a 4 year old child to primary school if s/he is not ready to access the curriculum?

Why complain that some four year olds cannot speak in proper sentences, take themselves to the toilet, get dressed properly if the parents know that their children are late developers?

Why send an 11 year old to secondary school if s/he is does not have the academic skills or maturity to access the curriculum?

Why complain that some secondary age children cannot master basic maths or literacy and lack the maturity to organise their school timetables, when parents and teachers would like them to have an extra year in primary school?

Actually, if given the choice now, I would keep my children with their year group. dd1 will be ready for secondary school at 11 and one week. dd2 is socially behind, but academically ahead, so little would be gained to keep her back. However, I know that not all children are like mine. Not all children do catch up. I do not even necessarily think a review of school readiness should apply only to children born in July and August. I think every child should be assessed as individual.

GeraldineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 10-Sep-09 12:25:03

donoharm, how long did it take you to register? Just want to check there's no problem with signing-up process. If you'd prefer to email us, please use


MoonlightMcKenzie Thu 10-Sep-09 16:36:46

mad and lingle. Do you not think that this issue is much wider than summer born children. Surely education should be flexible enough to meet the needs of ALL children, and this should include those who have SN, who are G&T, and who are HE or part-time HE?

I don't see this as summer-born issue at all, but an issue with the current education system meeting the needs of all children, and working with parents to ensure that each child can access suitable provision and appopriate timing of that provision.

Throwing a child who isn't ready, - for whatever reason, - into a 'standard' classroom, is going to require both the school and the parents to swim upstream in order to ensure that child's needs are met, when delaying, or flexibility could be an easy solution. And if the perpose of reception is to 'receive', then that is where most children will need to begin, regardless of their age.

TBH, I have a vision of education that is probably a long way off. Where school is the monitoring 'hub' or 'centre', but with education happening all over the place, at home, in community groups, in the park, abroad, and linked in to the 'hub' through the www and with classrooms and limited age peer groups being rarely used. Oh well, I'll come back to this planet then......

lingle Thu 10-Sep-09 19:34:34


I'm more of a change one small thing then the next small thing kind of girl..........particularly as we have the Scottish system available as a model.

remember, if TAs were no longer spending their time looking after immature summer-born boys whose parents weren't allowed to defer, those TAs could be making use of their time to help other children with SEN.

lingle Thu 10-Sep-09 19:36:17

So mumsnetHQ, how about helping us parents of immature boys identify each other in some kind of mumsnet spin-off please? Individual threads are all very well but we can't keep posting the same old message every day....

justagirlfromedgware Fri 11-Sep-09 13:38:02

I agree with Lingle's request for a summer-born children thread. It would be great to share experiences good and bad (my DS was born very late in August).

GeraldineMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 11-Sep-09 17:17:14

Summer-born thread here. Sorry for delay.

And FYI, we're waiting to hear back from Ed Balls' team about responses to questions he didn't get to. Will post once we've got them.


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