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Campaign to end Bounty sales reps' access to maternity wards - please read and share(866 Posts)
MNHQ have commented on this thread.
Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to fill in our survey on Bounty and share your stories - from the initial idea onwards, this really is a campaign that has been prompted by your concerns, as posted on Mumsnet.
The survey showed that a very large majority (82%) felt it was unacceptable for Bounty sales reps to be on hospital wards, as well as highlighting a number of other concerns about Bounty reps' selling practices, so we're calling on government to end this kind of direct selling/data collecting on NHS wards. See more here.
It's clear, from the survey results, that, even after Bounty updated its code of conduct (these results only include users who gave birth from May 2012 - the full results containing prior data are here) its practices leave a lot to be desired, and that Mumsnet users feel very strongly that the maternity ward is no place for a hard sell, so we're really hoping that government will listen to us.
Here's how you can help...
Please sign the petition
If you're on Twitter please tweet your support for the campaign with the hashtag #bountymutiny and the following link:
If you're on Facebook then please like campaign page our campaign page (there's a FB link to click at the top on the left).
If you're on Google+, well, you'll know what to do.
We'll, of course, keep you posted here about the campaign and any developments. Thanks to everyone for their stories, honesty and input. Here's hoping we can make a difference!
What is happening with this campaign? I'm convinced they don't comply with the Data Protection Act. Did the Information Commissioner's Office investigate. Data protection law is changing in May and the definition of consent is changing and consent to marketing won't be valid where there's an imbalance of power. I can't think of a more striking example of this than a hospital patient. Has this been raised with the ICO? Just wondering if I can help (bored lawyer off work waiting for number 3 to arrive).
Hi, I'm due to give birth in January. Just wondered what's the latest with the Bounty campaign? Is there any recent data or campaign info from Mumsnet / other since the CQC took an interest? Considering raising it with my local NHS Tust, as I believe Bounty are still active there. Many thanks.
I found this today- www.emptylemon.co.uk/Employer-Jobs/bounty/bounty-representative-royal-free-hospital-london-nw3/541893
With yesterday's date. Are NHS Hospitals still paying for them to be on the wards?
Very concerned. What does everyone else think??
As a nurse and a mum and working in Quality and governance, I have to say I recall the whole Bounty experience and the pressure and intrusiveness.
I'm now facing NHS redundancy and I've turned my hand to photography and in particular womens self esteem , confidence building, children and recently and very interestingly, breast feeding mums. The number of mums that have stated how they hated the Bounty experience and more importantly the extortionate pricing for poor quality unimaginative pictures, astounded me. I aim to address this in my area of Lincolnshire and beyond eventually and give mums a homely experience that is invited and not pressurised. My work is all done by word of mouth and anyone is welcome to view it.
Surely this is the way forward for new parents and their bundles of joy and not a hospital setting?
I suspect Health Visitors and Registrars would want paying extra for distributing anything. And how do they get them delivered and where do they store them? Multiple delivery points like this would cost the taxpayer millions! But actually, the real issue here is the cost of the pack itself. At around £2.50 + each, these packs cost the taxpayer around £2m a year to produce. And given the time-sensitivity of the information they contain, they also have a limited shelf-life. So the £90,000 annual fee to Bounty for reaching 95%/770,000 of all new parents represents rather less than 5% of the annual costs of getting this important information to its target audience. It would be plain daft and unbelievably wasteful to produce additional packs merely so that they can gather dust in Sure Start drop-in centres, Registrars’ offices or the car-boots of Health Visitors. My guess is that using all six of your distribution methods would lead to print/production/distribution costs of circa £15m along with incredible wastage, a total lack of environmental sustainability and the probability that a large percentage of parents would get out-dated or obsolete information. Of course, the Government knows all this, which is why – if the have any sense at all - they’re going to ignore this silly petition.
Frankly, this whole Mumsnet anti-Bounty campaign is ridiculous. Mums can just take the Bounty pack and say ‘no’ to mailings and chuck away the items they don’t want from the pack. (Er.... like the little pot of Sudocrem, or the set of newborn nappies, or the breastfeeding booklet) And wake up: Mumsnet competes with Bounty for commercial revenue. It’s like Pepsi co-ordinating a campaign against Coca-Cola. Am I the only person on this thread without scales on my eyes?
NardiniNick Could the forms not be held at registry offices? Or Sure start centers, libraries, or given out by health visitors? Or what about downloadable ? Or online form filling? There is six suggestions and I'm not evening trying that hard.
Who - other than Bounty - has the ability to distribute the Child Benefit Pack to 98% of all mums for just £90k a year? That's just 12p per pack! Probably rather less than the fee charged to Cadbury's chocolate for its sponsorship of the Mumsnet home page. Naturally, such firm support for Cadbury's underscores Mumsnet's commitment to best practice in nutrition and the fight against child obesity.
Just wanted to let you know that we've posted an update here.
Petition duly signed. Thank you MumsNet forgiving voice to those of us who feel this shameful practice should never have been allowed in this first place.
This is the type of Job Bounty advertises!!
This is the type of Job Bounty advertises!!
So far only 80 MPs have signed the early days motion-we need 100 for this to be discussed in parliament. I've tried my local MP (Jenny Chapman) but she declined to sign it, saying she appreciated the concerns but as a shadow minister she is not supposed to sign any edms, but has to remain neutral on every topic. Not sure how you can be neutral on every topic, but still!
Is anyone else having any luck with their MPs? We even tried putting it on her FB page!
I just wanted to add a suggestion regarding Bounty people. My company does a lot of work regarding data (medical records specifically). After getting pretty angry hearing about these people being allowed to roam around the maternity units getting peoples details, what I will be doing when I accompany my wife to give birth (imminently) is:
Giving details but also informing them that under the Data Protection Act I refuse for them to share our details with any third parties whatsoever.
I will also inform them that I will submit a Subject Access Request to any baby-type company who send me any unsolicited merchandising requesting where they got our details from (which they legally have to provide) and if Bounty is mentioned I will be reporting them (individually) to the police for identity theft and also to the Information Commissioner's Office where they should receive a hefty fine.
That way the hospital will get their money from Bounty but they will be legally useless to give anyone our data.
Petition signed, let's hope they are out by the time I give birth this time round.
I met with my local NHS trust to talk about Bounty. I was able to state my concerns and have a decent conversation with them about the realities of bounty being on the wards. My trust who do have their contract up for renewal in the next year are going to survey mums in post natal and after post natal to gain more insight into experience. I had also commented that I had seen bounty working the antenatal clinic and particularly the scan department. I was pleased to find that this was not apparently part of the contract and that this would be investigated and I am pleased to say that at my last scan I did not see bounty as I had on the previous 2 scans. Totally inappropriate for bounty to be going up to people who might be being scanned due to issues or who might be being scanned for infertility.
When I asked my trust how they can protect me from a bounty visit I was told that there is a system where the midwife should advise bounty who should not be approached because their situation is sensitive or they just don't want to be. I don't believe this will work in practice due to busy wards etc. I was also advised to take in a sign to say I should not be disturbed and pin it up on my curtains. I was also given my postnatal notes and told to write over then that I didn't want a bounty visit. I go in within the next few weeks and I'm not holding out hope.
So I wonder aside from what is going on with the petition and to avoid having to tell a rep that approaches me to bog off ( being polite ) if there is something the women can have a sign or something that bounty and the hospital are aware of that says don't come near me bounty. Like a learner driver plate, a baby on board underground badge. A do not disturb sign does not sound like its enough unless it is clearly a bounty do not disturb sign. If something like thisw as done we would publicise on national TV and in the press, let bounty know so they advise their reps and let NHS trusts know.
I support the campaign but my MP wouldn't sign the early day motion and it sounds like we have some hurdles and roadblocks to get through. I think we need to visual sign and a change of behaviour from women that will set the agenda rather than us have to defend ourselves and be disrespected let's state our intention up front.
late to the party and dont want to go through the thread to see if this has been posted.. heres a link to where they work across the uk: www.bounty.com/bounty-portrait/bounty-portrait-at-your-hospital
I think if anyone is still out there, you might be interested in changes to ICO guidelines on marketing that are effective from today and will definitely affect the way Bounty work.
This is a good article about it from the register (it was written by a legal firm who specialise in this type of thing)
The basic point is, that from now on, companies have to be extremely explicit about third party marketing and who who and how may contact you. None of this opt out nonsense.
The bounty rep at the maternity ward were I was didn't ask for any details, or offer me anything all she did was come in nicely and ask all us girls 'Who hasn't got their bounty pack yet?' She handed me mine, smiled and off she went.... I loved the 'getting a present after my tiring emergency c-section' ....I think as long as there is no hard sale and they just give out the packs I am happy. I loved my mini sudocrem pot... so ickle.
Hope you don't mind me giving my opinion... but my experience was positive.
Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.
From my local trust - I just don't think it's acceptable to say 'well no-one's complained up till now' Well no, I didn't complain up till now. But it's still fucking out of order and I've always thought so...
Thank you for your email off 11th July regarding the use of Bounty Services in the maternity unit at St Georges. I am sorry that your personal experience of Bounty Staff at St Georges was so poor. The Matron on the Postnatal Ward is very clear with the Bounty Photographer that they need to respect parents wishes and not intrude on those who did not want a visit. I would like to reassure you that the Matron would support any member of her staff challenging inappropriate behaviour from the Bounty Staff. The cot cards that were sponsored by Bounty are no longer used routinely in the Trust.
In your email, you asked three specific questions arising from Dan Poulter, MPs recent letter to NHS Chief Executives. I will address these in turn in relation to practices at St Georges.
1. Are you confident you are maintaining womens dignity and respect shortly after the birth of a baby as the Health Minister asks of you?
Until the recent publicity regarding Bounty activity in hospital, the maternity service had not received any complaints from women regarding Bounty. The Matron for the postnatal ward, where the photographer operates, carries out frequent rounds talking to women about their experiences and she has not had any concerns raised to her about the photographers. Indeed, the only concerns raised which mention Bounty previously are those made by women who have not yet received their Bounty Pack or a visit from the photographer and do not want to be discharged until they have these. If the Matron or any of the midwives felt that a member of the Bounty staff was acting inappropriately on the ward, they would deal with this directly and raise the issue with the Bounty management team.
However, as a result of recent letters regarding Bounty, and the media profile of this issue, the Director of Midwifery, Teresa Manders is organising a survey of women on the postnatal ward to assess their experience of Bounty. An action plan will be developed following this survey and we will liaise with Bounty to make improvements as and if necessary.
2. In the light of public concern and communication from the Health Minister will you be terminating your contract with Bounty?
As stated above, prior to the recent publicity we have not had any complaints from women regarding Bounty services at the hospital. They have been active in the hospital for at least 9 years and at this stage we have no intention of terminating our contract with them.
3. When is the current contract up for renewal?
The current five year contract will expire at the end of 2014 when it will be reviewed in line with Trust policy.
I am sorry that your experience of Bounty at St Georges was poor. I hope that this letter reassures you that the contract with Bounty is closely monitored and that any issues are addressed with Bounty Staff as and when they arise.
I would reply, Cold callers should not be welcome in an NHS environment, regardless of how nice and sweet they are.
It is a hospital not a marketing field.
so if bounty can go into the nhs and advertise and promote their products, what stops the nhs letting more companies doing so?
There should be no one on the maternity ward other than NHS staff, the patients+babies+dads themselves, and the occasional family visitor. It is a hospital not a business. End of . There should be randomers wondering around a maternity unit. Pftttt
^ the response from my local hospital.
Not sure where to go from here, campaigners... Don't at this moment have the mental energy to argue with this response.
Any suggested replies?
Many thanks for your letter outlining your concerns regarding Bounty services nationally and more locally here at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital.
As we were already aware of some concerns nationally, the postnatal ward manager and her staff over recent weeks, have periodically asked the newly delivered mothers about their experience and opinion of Bounty at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital and without exception they were all extremely positive about this service.
I would like to reassure you that we would not tolerate any hard sell tactics and we consider privacy and dignity issues a major priority. The Bounty representatives must notify a member of staff each time they attend the ward; the representatives are then informed if there are any women whom the staff consider (for whatever reason) inappropriate for the reps to approach. There is not, and we would not tolerate, any harassment or coercion of our patients.
All Bounty staff who attend the department also have appropriate safeguarding clearance.
At this point in time we have no reason to consider cancelling our contract with Bounty which was renewed 7th January 2013, for five years. However, if at any point we became concerned about inappropriate practices by Bounty personnel we would fully investigate and take any necessary and immediate action.
Thank you again for raising this with us and I would like to reassure that at all times the protection of our patients is paramount.
Well done stephenthomas. I have written to the head of UHCW expressing my concerns about being due to give birth at a hospital that supports Bounty reps and allows commercial enterprises on its wards but have heard nothing back.
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