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Muslim DH, just had DS. I don't want to circumcise

(198 Posts)
LittleMissRayofHope Mon 09-Feb-15 18:48:19

I don't want to do it.
I don't see the need or point.
As far as I am concerned it is a completely unneeded surgical procedure that removes a part of my sons body without his consent.
DH does want it done though.

There is a likely split up on the near horizon as well and I'm worried that even if I refuse he could just do it during contact one time. He is on both cert and as its a private procedure he wouldn't need my consent would he?

stargirl1701 Mon 09-Feb-15 18:50:45

I think you would need a court order to legally prevent it but he may do it regardless.

TessDurbeyfield Mon 09-Feb-15 18:53:28

You do need to have both parties' consent to circumcision - it is one of the few areas where you do - whether that consent is always checked in practice I'm not so sure.

Branleuse Mon 09-Feb-15 18:53:51

Surely you discussed this before you had children with him??

I wouldnt circumcise because its not part of my or my partners religion but my friend is married to a muslim guy and she put off having her two eldest done till they were older and it ended up being traumatic.
She just got her new baby done at a few weeks old and it was over and done with quickly, about half a day of discomfort and then absolutely fine.

I think if youre anti-circ, then you really shouldnt have kids with a muslim or jewish guy. Your reasons are logically valid but its a vital part of his religion.

jimmycrackcornbutidontcare Mon 09-Feb-15 18:55:29

What a difficult situation. If you really do think he will go ahead anyway you should maybe look into the safest, least painful way of doing it and insist he uses it.

meandjulio Mon 09-Feb-15 18:55:44

In these circumstances I would get it on the child's medical record that you do not give your consent to circumcision - write a letter to the child's GP perhaps but make an appointment to hand it over as well. I'm not sure whether this would be enough but I think it would be one simple safeguard to put in place.

Nolim Mon 09-Feb-15 18:56:30

Have you discussed what faith if any will you teach your son?

meandjulio Mon 09-Feb-15 18:56:34

branleuse there are jewish parents who choose not to circumcise - admittedly not many but it does happen. having a baby circumcised does not make it Jewish.

nokissymum Mon 09-Feb-15 18:59:59

i can never understand why people don't discuss these things before taking the plunge. Surely 'circumcision' must have come up once when you were dating? i'm guessing dh is circumcised? at this point you've left it rather late to be panicking about what he might do.

Sorry i know this is probably not very helpful, but your options are quite limited right now, its not exactly illegal in this country (male circumcision that is).

TywysogesGymraeg Mon 09-Feb-15 19:00:12

DH is circumcised and is neither Jewish nor Muslim. Doesn't bother him in the least.

People cut bits off their bodies all the time - hair, nails, appendices, boobs.... Its just a bit of skin. Not a big deal in the scheme of things.

You should have thought ahead when you chose a Muslim father for your child.

TessDurbeyfield Mon 09-Feb-15 19:08:20

Branleuse and Tywysoges - surely you could just as easily say that he should have thought ahead before choosing a non-Muslim mother for his child?

nokissymum Mon 09-Feb-15 19:14:43

Tess true! but we don't have the dh on MN here, it is the OP (DMUM) who is asking for help, if a reverse post had been posted people would have said the same thing.

CaptainAnkles Mon 09-Feb-15 19:19:09

The subject really should've come up before your DS was born, yes, but you should absolutely be able to refuse to have your child mutilated without your consent. Is the imminent split just because of this issue or was your relationship going wrong anyway?

Showy Mon 09-Feb-15 19:26:35

Really, cutting fingernails and hair is the same as lopping off part of somebody's genitals? And mastectomies, are we doing those for non-medical reasons too?

OP, I would ensure you get your lack of consent legally acknowledged ASAP.

Viviennemary Mon 09-Feb-15 19:30:03

I think this is the sort of thing that should have been discussed long ago. Still I can see that now you have your DS you don't want to subject him to this. Though I don't agree with it either there are advantages.

LittleMissRayofHope Mon 09-Feb-15 19:31:00

Subject did come up and it didn't bother me so I agreed. But at the time we didn't have a DS. Now we do, he is 5 months and I feel very very differently about it.

I said to DH when I was pregnant and after the birth that if it HAS to be done then I want it done very young. Before 6 months old. So that he hasn't a clue it's happening and before he starts moving around etc.
now we're almost there I just feel awful about it being done.

There is a big part of me that feels he is very likely to do it without me so perhaps controlling the situation and having it done, choosing the place etc is the way forward.

I realise it is a piece of skin, but I hardly think it's comparable to cutting your hair or nails. Neither of which have nerve endings in them and both can be re grown if you don't like it afterwards. This is a pretty definitive procedure, it can't be re attached.

I just no longer feel comfortable about it. I can't help that

Nightingalemumoftwo Mon 09-Feb-15 19:33:55

Don't do it! circumcision removes thousands of sensory/tactile nervous cells, effectively depriving the penis of extra sensation.
It is barbaric to mutilate a defenseless child's penis, a totally unnecessary , painful surgical procedure.
As a mum I would never put my baby through that for the sake of religious tradition. Sod that.

LittleMissRayofHope Mon 09-Feb-15 19:34:49

As regards what faith the dc will practice.
I am not religious and have no real beliefs. DH is Muslim but not exactly practising.
He does Ramadan. But he doesn't pray or attend mosque. Hasn't since before I met him. He eats halal and doesn't drink/smoke/gamble.

Alanna1 Mon 09-Feb-15 19:43:28

This isn't a legal answer, but I'd make an urgent appointment with your GP to discuss and hopefully enlist their assistance in discussing it with your husband, and possibly a family councillor/adviser, so that you can all explore the inter-related issues. I bet there is guidance out there to help you. I wouldn't circumcise but you need to help your DH get there too / discuss how you resolve these sorts of issues. Whilst logging your lack of consent in your son's medical notes!

Nightingalemumoftwo Mon 09-Feb-15 19:48:16

It's very easy: your DS's willy, not yours. Your DS's right to choose what to do with hos willy, not yours.
Your DS's basic human right to not have part of his body cut off while he's too young to defend himself.
What's hard about that? Your DH can chop off what hecwants of his own body if he thinks it pleases Allah, but ffs leave an innocent child's genitals alone.

Branleuse Mon 09-Feb-15 19:58:09

my good friend didnt exactly want to get her children circumcised, but actually the little baby whos just had it done at 4 months, it was completely untraumatic. Compared to getting it done later, which she now wishes shed just done it earlier. I think you just need to get it over and done with sooner rather than later and dont overthink it.
Ive even seen the babys willy when she changed his nappy and it didnt even look sore or weird and she only had it done less than a couple of weeks ago.

SlinkyB Mon 09-Feb-15 20:08:47

Circumcision was mentioned as an option to me, for my 3yo ds, by a Muslim GP last year when my ds was having problems.

I came home, Googled/went on NHS website/researched and looked up some useful old threads here on Mumsnet.

I decided he would only have it as a last resort; in line with NHS guidelines. I used to be "meh" but after my research would be upset if he had to have the procedure now.

Please stand up for your baby and do all you can to stop it happening.

CadmiumRed Mon 09-Feb-15 20:08:57

Oh dear.

The status quo is that your DS was born with a foreskin and I do not think that the fact that you have changed your view somewhat gives your DH's choice priority. It is your child's body, and it is hardly surprising that you do not want your tiny baby operated on for something that you do not believe in and is not medically necessary.

Circumcision is not demanded of Muslims religiously in the same way that it is of Jews. It is not in the Koran (though it is mentioned in the Hadiths, as a hygiene thing, not like a sacrifice as it is for Jews) and not all Muslims circumcise - we have extended family members who are uncircumcising muslims - though it is deeply culturally embedded.

Let your DH read this), and I wonder if you could find a liberal Imam who would explain that it isn't a religious necessity?

If your DS grows up choosing to follow Islam he can make his own decision a out what to do with his body.

But in the end, in your shoes, I would just say 'no' - and get it put on his medical notes. Surely your DH is not some kind of maniac who would take his baby child to an unlicensed illegal operator of some kind?? If he is I would see a solicitor straight away and see what your options are.

A decision not to circumcise can be reversed.
A decision to circumcise can not.

I believe you have the moral right to just say No, and keep saying No.

TessDurbeyfield Mon 09-Feb-15 20:09:21

Well the law is pretty clear that both parents with parental responsibility have to consent before the circumcision can be carried out lawfully. If they disagree then the one who wants to circumcise must get a court order having convinced a judge that it is in the child's best interests. The advice to medical professional is based on this law BMA so all of that is in your favour. My concern would be whether this is universally followed in practice. Obviously if you were going to the NHS you would expect so but if it were a more dodgy outfit like this then they may not be so careful about complying with the letter of the law?

Showy Mon 09-Feb-15 20:10:32

Branleuse I think it's impossible to overthink cutting off part of your baby's genitals. Can I ask how you know a little baby isn't traumatised by something?

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