Late Miscarriage- trying to understand

[Hope4Future]

Hi, just like everyone in this situation I am trying to understand why I have had a late miscarriage (at 16 weeks).

I had no pregnancy symptoms until 15 weeks when I started to have cramps and then a small amount of bleeding Sun night. The bleeding stopped quickly, but the cramps continued for a week. I also had yellow-brown discharge during this time. The cramps gradually got better and Sat all was back to normal.

3am Sunday morning passed 2 big clots then started bleeding. Went to hospital, scan on Monday showed baby was fine, discharged on Tuesday. Still mild bleeding and contractions.

Tuesday evening at home felt waters break, back into hospital with heavy bleeding and strong contractions. Contractions stopped by midnight.

Wednesday morning scan showed baby alive but no fluid. Blood test showed infection so baby was induced.

I dont understand what happened, has anyone had a similar experience and knows what the cause was? Normally it seems the baby dies which starts the contractions, but my baby was hanging in there, it just seems my body was trying to get rid of him.

[ThePettyandIllinformedGoat]

i don't know why, but i am so sorry. take care of yourself.

[sillybillybee]

I'm so sorry, I went through this a few years ago and still don't understand it, so unfortunately don't have any answers for you . If you feel you need to talk MN is here, I couldn't have got through it without MN. Take care and remember to take time to grieve.

[OracleInaCoracle]

I am so, so sorry. was this your first pg? will you get a follow up appt? i wish i had answers for you xx

[WorzselMummage]

I dont know what to say except i am really truly sorry for your loss

[Hope4Future]

My first pg after trying for a while. Trying to look forward and believe it will happen one day...

[bristols]

Sorry to hear about what you have been through. Perhaps you could ring your midwife? She may be able to access your hospital records to see exactly what happened and then sit with you to explain.

[Hope4Future]

I am meant to have a follow up in a few weeks so am putting together a list of questions. I hope that as it was late they will agree to some investigations, I just don't know at the moment. Suppose I have to wait til hormones etc are back to normal to get accurate results anyway.

[snooks]

no answers here i'm afraid, but just wanted to send condolences on the sad loss of your baby. i'm so sorry you are going through this and i hope you find some answers and some peace xx

[sadminster]

Hope4Future ... I have had two very, very similar experiences.

I've had an incredibly emotional day (was my son's funeral) ... I'd love to share my experiences with you, can I reply properly tomorrow?

Despite two horrible late losses I do have two living children so there is hope but it feels like your heart is being ripped from your chest.

Just to say that a single late loss (after 14 weeks) warrants full miscarriage investigation - clotting, infection, karyotyping of you & your partner, diabetes/PCOS etc etc - if your doctors are not being helpful push them.

[Marina]

Hello hope4future, I'm so sorry your baby died - and that you had to live through your own child's funeral today sadminster
I think one of the most difficult things about pregnancy loss is that even the wisest and most caring of obstetricians are forced to admit that there is a lot they still do not know about the causes of second trimester pregnancy loss. We lost our son Tom at 22 weeks and even though we had a PM and a full battery of tests we never found out why. I was told that the likelihood of a cause being found is only 50%, even with all the advances in obstetrics and gynaecology in the past 50 years.
You may not realise this hope4future, but you can get support and advice from both SANDS (which includes second trimester bereavements) and the Miscarriage Association. The latter, which was no help to me in 2002 , does now have a great leaflet on "late miscarriages": here. You will see that there is quite a lot on post-delivery testing and follow-up.
Sending you lots of love and you too sadminster
I went on to conceive dd only a few months after we abandoned all hope of ever having a living sibling for ds. I wish you all the luck in the world XXX

[Hope4Future]

Thanks so much for all your kind messages. It really helps to talk about it with people who understand, although it is so sad to hear of other people's hurt.

[me23]

I don't have any answers but just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss xx

[ilovethecake]

Like me23, i too don't have any answers for Hope or Sadminster or anyone who is experiencing anything similar, but wanted to send my love and hugs to you all, you will all be in my prayers xxx

[Hope4Future]

I'm still checking the thread if anyone still wants to add?

[sadminster]

Hi FutureHope I think I may have replied to you on SANDS - sorry, this is just a cut & paste.

In a nutshell:

I lost my daughter Stella at nearly 15 weeks under similar circumstances.

At 9 weeks I had a little bleed - EPU said everything looks fine can't see where it's coming from, go home. Exactly a week later I had another bleed, this time I went to the FMC in London. They said I had a subchorionic & retroplacental clot from which I was bleeding. Basically this is bleeding which forms a clot on the surface on the placenta & behind it. They are not uncommon & often don't cause too many problems but do increase your chance of losing the pregnancy. I was told to rest & make sure I didn't get dehydrated (which can cause contractions). I was told to expect more bleeding as the clot came out.

A week later - another bleed - another scan - clot was smaller but there was a new one on the other side of the placenta. Baby okay but situation was serious. Another week & I got out of bed, felt a pop & collapsed. My membranes had gone. When we got into hopsital the scan showed Stella was okay but there was very little fluid left. We were advised to terminate the pregnancy, which wasn't an option for us at that time. Instead we made an appointment for another couple of weeks to 'reasses'.

The clots of blood in the uterus can cause contrations & weaken the membranes by causing inflammation. Infection can also cause PROM & premature labour as can uterine abnormalities (e.g. septums) and an incompetant cervix.

On the Sunday night (before my Monday appointment) I started bleeding very heavily & having painful (very) contractions. We rushed into A&E, the scan showed a uterus full of blood & a dead baby - my placenta had completely abrupted & I was taken straight to theatre. Was in theatre & recovery for 6 hours until they managed to control the bleeding

Had the usual investigations afterwards = infection, clotting, scan/HSG, hormones, karyotyping. It didn't come up with much except a slightly elevated anticardiolipin level (clotting disorder) - I was advised by NHS dr to take 150mg of aspirin next time but got private treatment (steroids, aspirin, clexane, progesterone) & ds was born healthily at full term after my subsequent pregnancy.

We had to go back to the NHS for Toby's pregnancy & didn't get clotting treatment - we didn't have a PROM this time but Toby died just before 17 weeks. We don't know why yet but I won't contemplate trying again without the same treatment I had with ds.

[Helsbels4]

Hope4Future, I'm so sorry to hear of your very sad loss. I know someone who had three miscarriages around the 15-20wk mark and the doctors eventually said she had an incompetent cervix. When she fell pregnant again, they put a little stitch into her cervix and removed it near to her due date and she now has the most beautiful little boy. Fingers crossed that it will turn out well for you too.

[BBBee]

hi hope

I lost a son at 20 weeks. Similarly to you he was alive and like you I felt like my body got rid of him. This was a very difficult adn painful experience.

Sorry - can't really post now but will be back.

[Hope4Future]

(paste from Sands)

sadminster, thank you so much for replying, I am so sorry you lost your babies, I know a little of what you are going through.

Did you get a referral to the private clinic? I am considering this too as life is too precious to take any (unneccessary) chances. I don't know how to make sure the private clinic is a decent one, any advice?

[hattscat]

So many sad stories. I lost my baby at 18 weeks. No warnings, just painful contractions, got to hospital where she was born. Huge shock. Was at Christmas so at my mil. The hospital assured me that my midwife would be in touch on my return home. Nothing. Had to plead to get someone to come and see me. No follow up, no nothing. Felt very lost. In the end we took a deep breath and went private. Nothing came up. It is all very bewildering and I think it is natural to feel some guilt no matter how rationally you know there is nothing you could have done.
Where are you Hope4Future? I am in London and saw Katy Clifford at the Lister Hospital.

[SweetPea99]

Hi all, so sorry for everyone's losses, it is such a shock I think, to lose the baby in the second trimester, and as I understand it, pretty uncommon too. I lost a little girl, but unlike your babies, she died in the womb. The 20 week scan was a terrible, terrible shock.

Sadminster, you mentioned that you had different treatment with DS, can I ask what it was?

[sadminster]

Stella was the result of IVF (at the ARGC) - when I got pregnant with Jasper they took me back & treated me through out the pregnancy. Unfortunately they are much busier now & aren't taking non-IVF patients anymore. I'm contemplating seeing Dr Shehata or Dr Thum at the Lister as well as my NHS obstetrician (who is actually very good, it was the m/c doctor who was awful) & seeing if St Mary's have any ideas (don't hold much hope tbh they are evidence driven - I need someone who's willing to push things a bit).

With Jasper I had progesterone (cyclogest) until 12 weeks, prednisolone (steroid), 25mg/day until 8 weeks then weaned off from then until 12 weeks, & 150mg aspirin and 20mg of clexane until 24 hours before delivery (elective section at 38 weeks). I also had regular growth scans (every 2 weeks), CTG monitoring weekly/twice weekly, doppler scans of the placenta & blood flow, & cervical assessment in case the PROM was a result of cervical incompetence. They offered me steroids in case of preterm delivery. Basically I got pretty much everything on could offer - the pregnancy was totally uncomplicated - no bleeding, no scares etc.

With Toby I only had 75mg aspirin/day - I wasn't happy to self medicate anymore than that without monitoring. I was scared of having another abruption.

My pregnancy with my oldest was unmedicated as well but I had a lot of problems - PROM & (slightly preterm delivery), pre-eclampsia - which were put down to possible placental issues.

hattscat what is your opinion of Katy Clifford? I'm always on the look out for second (third/forth/...) opinions.

[Hope4Future]

I am in Northumberland, but would be willing to travel for decent advice. I don't really know where to start. I guess I will wait for appointment to discuss PM results and take it from there. Even if there is a cause I would still like investigations, just to be sure there wasn't a further contributing factor. All through the times I was having problems, they said my cervix was closed, even when they induced me they said they hoped it would work faster, so I don't think this was the cause- at least I hope it wasn't.

I really hope whoever I see is helpful and not dismissive- so much depends on the attitude of the docs doesn't it?!

[pwcbird]

Hello all,
I lost my baby a week ago with a 'missed' miscarriage. I was 22 weeks and went for my anomoly scan only to find the baby had died at approx 17 weeks. They had to induce me so I could deliver. It's been very hard - the whole experience was such a shock. My only symptoms were that I was a bit concerned that at 22 weeks I hadn't really felt the baby and 2 days before the scan I started to get cramps, though thought they could be ligament pain. I was a bit anxious but never thought the baby would have died. I'll never forget that awful moment in the scan room. We've asked for a PM and, like you hope4future will wait and see. Once you get past the 12 weeks you think it's going to be ok don't you? Sorry not to offer any advice, but wanted you to know you're not alone. x

[snowwombat]

Dear all,
very very sorry to hear of your losses but also thankful to have found a thread to lurk on. Today is a week since our son Oliver's funeral. He was born at 20+3 after PROM and a pregnancy complicated with recurrent bleeds. He fought until the end, delivered alive and died a short time later. We are also waiting results of the PM and my bloods. Just feel im limbo- desperately want to have a child but very unsure of what path we might be heading down.
Sorry I don't have anything to add either but thanks for reading. sadminster and pwcbird were we all on the Dec 08 thread?

[mum2jai]

So sorry for your loss, Snowwombat. There's a few of us on here who have lost babies at a similar time, so we understand (there's another thread about testing if you haven't found it).

We lost Jai 2 months ago in different circs. I was 20+5 and we turned up at the scan to find he had died.

The shock of losing a baby is indescribable. We've had hard bereavements before, but I've never felt any loss like this. You must be feeling utterly bereft at the moment, but so proud that Oliver fought so hard. I hope that's some comfort to you. You must take it where you find it - the mercies are so small at a time like this.

We've just had the results of our PM (have they warned you it can take ages even if you get the preliminary report quickly?) and all was perfect with both of us. We had been warned that we might not get any answers from the PM but it's hard not knowing what happened.

If it's of any comfort, it probably won't be at this stage and I don't want to sound glib - lots of people have lots of difficulties associated with pregnancy and I wouldn't want to minimise them - but this experience doesn't necessarily mean you will always have problems in the future. Even if they find something, there is a lot they can do.

I had terrible infertility problems, and then had 3 easy pregnancies to everyone's surprise, and then lost Jai equally to everyone's surprise. Our medic friends always remind me that every pregnancy is different (bar underlying problems) and can have a different outcome - so there are no guarantees either way.

Sadly we know quite a few who have had difficulties in pregnancy (stillbirths at term/v.prem babies/late losses/late terminations for anomalies etc) and all have had healthy children before or since.

Jai's pregnancy was unexpected, and came at a difficult time but as a result of losing him, we realise how much we want to have another - we're terrified to, even having had pregnancies that have been fine, so I can understand how hard it must be for you.

I wish you courage and strength at such a difficult time, and into the future. This is a hard road to travel, and the journey is a sad and long one. I hope you find joy at the end of it.