this may turn in to a rant....

[broccolitrees]

but does anyone else think that it is NO consolation at all when people tell you "well at least you can conceive" after you have had a miscarriage?? we all have struggles, and we all have different reactions, but "at least you can conceive"? how is that helpful, through the grief. great, i'll get pregnant and likely lose it again!
i know that non-conception is incredibly painful, as my babies have taken a very long time to conceive, but i have lost 3 out 4 pregnancies for definite and it is likely that i have had another 4 very early losses. i wish people would think before they offer platitudes.

[nonanny]

I do agree that this is insensitive, as is people asking if it was planned....But sometimes nice things can shine through, like, "so many of us have been there". Losing so many is not something most people who miscarry experience, so you do have the right to suffer with this and to get sympathy. Real friends won't say the hurtful things. And sometimes, for no apparent reason, after many losses, it can work out; it does for some people even after many many years trying; who knows why....I am sad for you. Take it easy.

[sotough]

hi, i agree. i have sometimes thought that it would be easier to struggle to conceive, awful though that is, than it is to conceive and lose, and then go through it all again, and again, and again.
i conceive very easily, usually within a month or two of trying, but i also had four miscarriages in a row, and it was absolutely devastating. For two years I was in a dreadful cycle of getting pregnant, staying pregnant for a few weeks, then losing the baby. i hope you are being offered good NHS care and access to recurrent miscarriage specialists. incidentally i am now 36 weeks pregnant. there is hope.

[Guitargirl]

I think sometimes people just need to say something and they are looking for something positive to say and that's what they find. Am sure that lots of people are kicking themselves afterwards for what they've said.

I have learnt now when told of bad news - any bad news - is just simply to say 'I am very sorry'. Because when told of the loss of a child at any age or any stage of development there really is nothing anyone can say to make the person suffering that loss feel any better .

[hairyfairylights]

Totally agree. It seems I can conceive at an amazing rate (twice in six months) at forty two, yet so far I have also miscarried twice :(

[hairyfairylights]

Oh lunatic isn't it maddening. Even consultants have said "you will be fine next time" . They have no idea!

[louisesh]

The one i hate is " I don t know how you re coping,You re so strong".!!! Well seeing as my dd was stillborn following a history of 3 MCs i really have no choice.

This hell was inflicted upon us we have no choice and i hardly think its a case of being strong.What is the alternative????

These comments are from people who concieve at the drop of a hat,no miscarriages and all the crap that goes with that, no darling daughter stillborn at 41 weeks whilst having had an incredibly medical led and stressful pregnancy!!!!!

Or the other thing that annoys me: No communication from my manager whatsoever as "she doesn t know what to say!!".Shes a nurse [we both are] has been for 20 odd years, a mum of 55 years old and doesn t know what to say????!!!! Come on get real!!!

[broccolitrees]

louise i am so sorry for your losses.
i am a nurse too: what is the matter with our profession? we are trained to 'care' yet we are totally crap at caring for each other.

[KTDace]

People say the most ridiculous things, I can't stand being told that it will all be ok in the end. It feels like I am not allowed to be as upset as I am IYSWIM.

Lunatic I can imagine these coming weeks will be very stressful, hopefully christmas will be some distraction. Sending my love and good wishes for you and your baby.

louise I am so sorry you are having to deal with crap people on top of everything else. I am so very sorry for your losses. x

[Havingkittens]

I'm with you on this one too. I have fallen pregnant somewhere within 1-3 cycles, 6 times now, and I'm coming up for 41. I had my last miscarriage last week, the third this year. People who have obviously had their own struggles in conceiving tell me I'm lucky that I can conceive so easily and that it took them/their partners xx months/years to conceive their (live) baby. I can't seem to get it through to them that, although it must've been horrible getting their period month after month and no BFP but they do have a baby and I don't so I don't see how that makes me lucky. A few of my friends who started TTC around the same time as me, and who had struggles conceiving now even have 2 little ones and I'm still "walking to the gallows" every time I have a scan.

Obviously there is the odds theory that if you throw enough mud at a wall some of it will stick, so if you conceive quickly you get more chances at the lottery, as it were. But you also get more shots at heartache too.

I have been told so many times by various people "I've got a good feeling about it this time". I know they are trying to be positive but, really, "Shut the fuck up!"

My other favorite is when people who don't know me (or my history) that come out with the "Oh, did you not want kids then?" when they find out my age, followed with "Oh you do? Blimey, hadn't you better get on with it then?". Again.... "Shut the fuck up!" Some bloke asked my OH and I that at a party a few weeks ago whilst I was newly and very anxiously pregnant. Really, if you ask that question, what are your options? Best case scenarious, listening to someone who decided not to have kids feeling they have to justify themselves to a relative stranger, or less appealingly, wishing the ground would swallow you up as someone recounts their grisly and heartbreaking stories of loss, disappointment, grief, failure, frustration etc.

Lunatic, I wish you the best of luck with this pregnancy. I hope Christmas provides you with lots of distraction and the support of your family around you.

[Havingkittens]

Scenarious? WTF? Erm.... I blame last week's general anesthetic.

[hairyfairylights]

ok, kittens you win in the 'older ladies conceiving at an amazing rate' stakes

And yes kittens why the hell do they say that shit? happens to me all the time.

"You didn't want kids then"...and "oh you would have been such a lovely mum" ... I feel like hitting them with the truth.... "well, yes, actually, it's the one thing I really, really wanted, but I was in a shit relationship with a man who bullied me into suppressing those needs, and it took me til forty one to work it out and find a lovely man who does want kids with me, but I keep miscarrying them in horrible circumstances."

and yes louise. I have had those 'you are so strong' comments. Felt like saying 'well, when we found out about our missed mc, we came home, went straight to bed in the dark, and stayed awak most of the night crying in each other's arms' and 'well yes, but for the first two weeks I cried several times a day, until my eyes were puffed up like golf balls, and I fantasised about stealing babies"


Grrrr.....

[LAF77]

broccoli I don't think that people have any idea what to say who haven't been through repeat multiple miscarriages. I had my third m/c in 8 months this morning.

My first pg, I told a few friends quite early, being naive thinking everything would be OK. On the second one, I did the same. On this one, I told virtually no one as I couldn't bear the questioning about how everything was going and "I'm sure this time, it will be OK" because it wasn't. I don't know if the problem is with me or it is just "bad luck" and have had 3 chromosomally abnormal pregnancies. It doesn't make it any easier either way.

It feels so very lonely, with no one in RL to talk to about it, but at least we have MN.

I am dreading Christmas time and people asking questions about "don't you want to have children?" I may bite someone's head off and tell them bluntly that I've had 3 m/c this year and make them feel as uncomfortable as they have made me feel. I have gone out of my way to avoid certain friends who are heavily pregnant because they will want to ask, "so, what's going on with you?" whilst they sit there with their pregnant bellies, glad that it isn't them that is afflicted with this misery.

[peanuthead]

Hmmm - about to put my head above the parapet here....

As someone who is infertile and has also lost two babies in the second trimester I have to say infertility is bloody dreadful. Most people - and i don't include recurrent mc here - who miscarry seem to go on to have ahealthy pg 3 months or so later. Knowing you can't get pg is bloody hard - there is absolutely no chance at all of it happening in my case without egg donation. ANd even then there is every chance I might lose a baby if I'm lucky enough to conceive. Recurrent miscarriage and infertility aren't mutually exclusive.

And it's a thought that does go through my head every time I hear about someone having a mc. But then I'm still in bitter mode..

As for " oh you're so strong" blegh.... what are we supposed to do? HAve considered topping myself when the grief was raw, have thought I'd end up on a section too. Strength has nothing to do with it. People are so rubbish at knowing what to say...

And as for all the insensitive, "oh did you only want one? " people, (and god I know how utterly utterly blessed I am to have one) I tell them straight. I'm infertile and I've lost 2 boys since my DD. Cue awkward pause.

[Greenshadow]

Agree peanuthead - I think it was a BIG consolation in my case.
First pregnancy ended in a miscarriage, but knowing that there was no reason why I shouldn't get pregnant again was very reassuring.

[Havingkittens]

Peanuthead, I am not dismissing infertility at all. I know it must be heartbreaking and frustrating and make you feel so helpless and angry. All I'm saying is that being told repeatedly how lucky I am to be able to conceive quickly is also really frustrating and upsetting because it feels, like the feeling you have yourself which has prompted you to respond, that people are almost dismissing your struggles as not being as bad as their own.

To be fair, it's all shit. Whichever angle we are getting this shit thrown at us from it's horrible. But when someone who is younger than me and has completed their perfect family is bemoaning how long and frustrating it was for them to achieve that and that I am lucky to be able to conceive so easily it does feel a bit like a slap in the face. I have conceived at the drop of my knickers a hat, 6 times. Even if I am not quite ready to give up yet, I am very much starting to feel that I have to come to terms with the idea that it's very likely I will remain childless.

[peanuthead]

yep - it's shite whatever the reason. Recurrent mc is just dreadful. Destroyed my mum's life and blighted my childhood.

Can't believe anyone would say that to you kittens (well actually I totally can) if they've gone on to have kids! Incredible...

Also I remember a "friend" who had to terminate for Turners at 13 weeks saying to me (at the time I was failing to conceive quite miserably) "well at least I know I can get pregnant". A sensitive soul.

But really I just wanted to say infertility is dire and should never be underestimated. And sadly it seems that quite often people who struggle to concieve also miscarry.

[hairyfairylights]

peanuthead I'm sorry for your circumstances

I could use an argument back that goes along the lines of 'well, at least you know what your problem is, at least you can move on and give up/have IVF'.

I could have IVF with egg donation - it would cost me £3k+ - they could choose great eggs and great embryos and I could still miscarry, because no-one knows why I have miscarried twice. It would be silly and a waste of time/energy/money as they don't know if there is some condition in me which means I can't carry.

Those of us who repeatedly miscarry also have the dread of it happening again, and again, and again....'at least you can conceive' is said as if there was some great joy in conceiving even though you miscarry

I dont' see why you need to compare it to infertility ... the two are not mutually exclusive, nor is there a competition on misery. Both are miserable and soul destroying.

But this is where those of us who recurrently miscarry are talking about what that particular situation is like.

I am one of the ones who went on to get pregnant three months later. And I miscarried that baby too. That was on 22nd November. I have no idea if I will ever conceive again, as I am almost forty three, I have a round of tests to decipher, I have to battle with consultants who seem to take the attitude that 'you will be fine next time' and 'no your tube is not blocked' not even having examined me, and with a piece of paper from a consultant who did a hycosy which says it is, in front of them.

apologies if a bit ranty, but your post isn't very helpful.

[broccolitrees]

peanut i don't think you have said anything that was risque above the parapet, i think you are absolutely right that it is all total crap. i too am incredibly blessed to have a dd, and i am SO thankful for her. (i am also terrified that my miscarriages may somehow blight her childhood, although that is for another thread). as you say it seems so grossly unfair that those who continually struggle to conceive also struggle to carry and i think that is why it narks me that people think it's ok to offer conception as a consolation. it is no consolation if the babies you are conceiving are not viable, what good is that? the result is still the same; you must still come to terms with the fact that your future is not as you had dreamed. you are on a roller-coaster that encourages you to dream when you find out you are pregnant, only to be crushed when you find out that there will be no baby - again. we were coming to terms with the fact that we are unlikely to have any more (again, i know how blessed i am with dd) but this time i got to a whole 7 weeks before finding out it was all over. the majority of people who make such statements as "at least you can conceive" do so with no knowledge of circumstances and again i say "think, before you open your trap" because you don't know where you may be putting your foot. the correct response (imo) is "i am very sorry" as a poster said earlier.

incidentally, when i began this thread it was not to minimse the pain of non-conception, it was merely to get some emotion of my chest. i did warn you all this may turn into a rant

[broccolitrees]

x-posts hairy
agree it is not a competition on misery, hence i said i am not belittling the pain of non-conception, merely struggling with my own emotions at the minute, and why i don't want people to tell me "great news you can conceive....the downside is: they're unlikely to stick"

[hairyfairylights]

my post was aimed at what peanut said?!

[peanuthead]

HAiry - have had egg donation and lost my boy in the second trimester - you are right, makes no odds. I'm 42.

Not sure why I posted really. Think not reading properly and feeling cross at three women I know who recently had first trimester miscarriages after ttc for 3 months. All three compared themselves to my situation along the lines of "oh now I know how you feel" and then went on to conceive again immediately. Two are now in second trimester and I know that means nothing, but for most people it means they're out of the woods. No they have no idea how I feel.

And another good friend has recently had 3 consecutive mcs all after 10 weeks (miserable) but is now due in Jan. And she said to me something along the or reading lines of at least she can get pg as it took her one cycle each time.

So I think really I vented about RL stuff when not thinking properly or reading properly. Just most people I know in RL who miscarry have gone on to have babies pretty quickly. My mum didn't so I should kow better. Sorry.

It's all shite, whether you can conceive or not, until you have that baby in your arms it makes no odds if it's recurrent mc or infertility. And actually you've all made me take my head out of my arse abit.

[hairyfairylights]

so, so sorry for your loss :(

Loss is loss is loss. We are all suffering, and so are your friends with the multiple miscarriage.

x

[ClaireDeLoon]

'until you have that baby in your arms it makes no odds if it's recurrent mc or infertility'

how very true :( probably one of the most poignant things I've read on mn

[wewishyouamerrylissiemas]

just wanyt to stick my head in. dont think I can really add much. I have a friend who went through the menopause at 20 and used IVF, got pg then mc'd. I dont feel any more or less lucky than her. I refer to myself as infertile, because my body does not have the capability to carry a baby anymore. I am not fertile enough. if pushed I will say "we've had a few mc's so are ineligible for IVF" if pushed further I will say "ive had 12 miscarriages and nearly died, Ive lost a tube and 5 years of my life trying to complete my family. but we had sex last night, 13 days since my last period, doggy style. afterward i stuck my legs in the air for an hour, my period is due on... do you want me to call you and let you know if its arrived?"

shuts them up.