What to say on first contact after 20wk scan bad news

[snugglejunkie]

Firstly - sorry to post and run. Have to be out this pm but will check responses later.

Literally just found out that B&SIL have had 20wk scan & been told that there is no heartbeat

I am absolutely gutted for them. We are quite close despite living v far apart. We have a 10.5mo DS and baby would have been their first - also no previous pregnancies. Much made of having cousins etc.

Will find out from FIL if they want phone calls or not. If not, plan to send email saying things along the line of (paraphrasing) gutted for them... then I run dry. What to say? everything I think of sounds glib

Nothing you could do, please don't blame yourself (sort of thing) SIL likely to be thinking her fault in some way as is her personality (she is lovely)

Don't want to inadvertantly venture into 'no-no' territory with things to say. Trying to think what I'd want/need/not mind hearing in revers situation but mind gone blank.

so very . Trying not to cry myself, feels self indulgent. They were so happy and looking forward to the birth.

Advice?

[treedelivery]

think a very plain 'I am so so sorry for your sad news, and if I can do anything or help in anyway please just email, text, ring or write. I can drop off food, do some shopping, run errands, or visit for a chat anytime too. 'm so sorry, take great care of yourselves. See you when you are ready, Love sis'

I wouldn't do anything more than acknowledge let them know you are there, unless you get from them that they blame themselves, or something like that. People are often very sensitive, and hearing 'it wasn't your fault' becomes 'she thinks ii's my fault and she's overcompensating'

Grief and panic do this to you.

SO just reach out, and maybe send a little text/email/note through door every 3 days or so, and keep going forever if need be.

So sorry for you all

[Minione]

My son was born stillborn at 30 weeks in June. We appreciated people saying they were there for us and thinking of us, either via email, card or text. I didn't really want to speak to anyone whereas Dh did, however as time has passed this has reversed. We had some lovely cards which contained heartfelt messages, I have put these in Malachy's memory box. I found that people were there for us early on but as time passes everyone moves on, your b and sil will appreciate if you are there for them in the weeks and months to come.

My thoughts are with your brother and his wife, they are lucky to have such a thoughtful sister.

[treedelivery]

The other thing is your poor bro&sis will have to birth, and will have their little baby for the hours they want to.

Acknowledgement and interst in the baby is often really important, be interested in the sex, what name they have chosen, what momentos they get [hair, footprints, pics] - and see how that goes. There will be a service or whatever your sis&bro choose to have, which you can hear about and comment on how special it sounds.
If they are able to accept and grieve a loss of their baby, then a small bear or pink/blue blanket or something strengthens their experience of having a baby.

Some couples can't go there, and blank the babyness of everything, which has to be respected too. They may be in utter shock and be on autopilot. It may hit later, and then you can be there to ask about boy/girl names and turn up with a pink rose to plant or wahtever you choose.

I think it's just gently gently isn't it. But always acknowledgement and giving time to let them speak.

[snugglejunkie]

Good point treedelivery I will wait if/when I hear any 'if only I..'s before I say anything about no fault playing any part.

I think I'm overthinking what to say aren't I? Falling into that trap of wanting to somehow make them feel better by simply saying something, which obviously I can't. Was maybe hoping for a magic phrase that would make everything OK Silly, I know.

Unfortunately there isn't anything practical I can do for them as we live 6hrs drive away from each other.

I will keep it simple and open ended.

Thanks both posters.

(btw, is DH's bro not mine. Though he feels like my brother as I am an only)

[nancydrewrocked]

Phone even if you just leave a message - it is so much more personal. Let them know that you are thinking of them. If they don't pick up the phone or return your call don't stop reaching out. Call a few days later and say "no need to call if you don't feel up to it was just letting you know we are thinking about you".

Eventually a point will come where DB/sil do want to talk - sadly many people have given up/thought they have done "their bit" by that point.

And I agree with the avoiding saying "it is not your fault"...in the early days after I lost my DS2 I would have read "fault" into that: grief makes you crazy....

So sorry for you all.

[onimolap]

I'd suggest writing a letter as well - perhaps in a few days after she's delivered their baby and you can include his/her name. I can't bear to look at those we received followiing the neonatal death of DS1, but they meant a lot at the time and I have kept them all. Maybe one day I'll want to see them again.

In the meantime, email - it needn't be very long, just from the heart. And as she is a first time mother who may not have thought about delivery, you might want to think if you can tactfully offer advice about labour, or general support around the birth. Even little practical things, such as getting them maternity pads; or significant things like something to dress the baby in.

One tip - but it might not be appropriate to make it (depends on personalities): black and white photos may look better than colour. If they still have/use a film camera, they might want to put B&W in it. Also take more than one camera - those photos will be the only ones they'll ever have. They may also want to cut a locket of hair, and have foot and handprints taken.

I wish you all the best supporting them through this.

[emptyshell]

Don't take your baby around - it would be like pouring acid onto an open wound (sorry if you don't want to hear that - but I just had to come around from a D+C to remove dead twins to the sound of some insensitive cow's child screaming "mama mama mama" and it led to me discharging myself against medical advice to get away from it).

Send flowers or a card or whatever with a "thinking of you" type message, please don't understand the "we know what you're feeling" one or trot out lines about counselling, "you can always try again", "things are meant to be" or any crap like that - it just adds to the pain.

The LAST thing I'd want would be well-intentioned advice about anything birth related - it would smack of smug mummy talking down and would be liable to provoke a family incident - tread very carefully on that one.

Other than that - you have to just leave the door open for them to approach you - and considering you have a child, that might be a long time in coming (I haven't even left the house in the month they've taken to decide mine were dead with inconclusive scans because I can't deal with babies, bumps and pregnant women).

One thing - do not ever, in any years to come - try to pull the "if you had kids of your own you'd understand" line with them. They DID have a child, unfortunately not one who breathed and walked on this earth - but a real, wanted, loved child, who simply was taken far far too soon. It may be tempting when you've had a bad day and someone's giving you helpful advice - but it's a knife to the heart and it happens again and again. They'll probably be much nicer than I would ever be if anyone tried that line (which is always a throwaway with no offence meant) - but it will still hurt.

[snugglejunkie]

Thanks for responding emptyshell . I hope you have understanding family & friends around you to help you through.


So I called BIL last night - basically just said was gutted for them and let him talk/tell me as much as he wanted. They have to wait until Sunday so they are going for some long walks today.

I said I'd ring today as well, but if they didn't feel like talking just to let it go to answerphone.

Thanks everyone for advice. Stopped me trying to say too much and making it worse.

[emptyshell]

Thanks everyone for advice. Stopped me trying to say too much and making it worse.

Now, can you go and teach my mother in law that principle?! :D

[KTRace]

One thing I would like to add, which someone has previously mentioned, but they will need you for weeks/months etc to come.

I can only imagine how terrible this is for you B&SIL, I found out at 10 weeks that I had had a MMC and that is devastating enough. People are very kind in the beginning but then they get on with their lives (understandably). It means the world to me to get a kind text message now 3 weeks later as it shows my friends have not forgotten so keep up the kind calls, email and messages but don't expect answers, also whereas I thought I was coping when I was first told I am now falling apart.

Also, I would imagine the the due date will be hard on your family so I would again let them know you are thinking about them when the time come.

You sound like a fabulous SIL just keep being kind, and I am so very sorry for you B&SILs loss.

[MummyAbroad]

You have received some fantastic advice here, I agree with it all. If you still feel at a loss of what to say I would have a look at this site,

pregnancyloss.info/
There is a section here about what NOT to say
www.pregnancyloss.info/dealing_with_others.htm#thoughtless

I found so many parts of this site so tremendously helpful, as well as talking to people in a similar situation on MN. Another good resource is the miscarriage association.
www.miscarriageassociation.org.uk/
who offer counselling

You might want to recommend some of these ideas to your SIL. Probably better not to jump in with this immediately, but as others have said after the first few weeks when everyone else expects the couple to be "recovered" you could recommend this to her if you feel its appropriate.

take care xxx

[onimolap]

Also look at the SANDS website (and try to find out if anyone has recommended it to them).

And I agree completely with emptyshell about the need to avoid appearing inadvertently smug; my suggestion of offering advice if they wanted it about delivery options was only because it is something they may need and may have found difficult to take in when shellshocked at the hospital. I think I was trying to mean there are areas where you might be of practical help, and you could let them know that you are there in suchways if they want it.

[nancydrewrocked]

I think the advice of not to take your baby round should be treated with caution and illustrates how important it is to talk, talk and talk some more or at the very least keep those lines of communication open.

I have never struggled with babies - even after the loss of F. and at times it was difficult to deal with the feeling that people didn't want their children around you. I remember a particular lunch (albeit sometime after his death) where I was cuddling a very good friends baby and was extremely aware that a number of people were "checking out" how I was dealing with it. I kind of wanted to shout I'm not a nutter who is going to steal the baby you know!

Anyway the point is everyone is different - and whilst I wanted understanding and most importantly the opportunity to talk about my son I didn't want to be treated like the crazy lady.

I really can't emphasise enough how wonderful Sands are - because they are the "stillbirth and neonatal death society" many people don't realise that they also offer excellent support for those who have suffered late MC's I know we have a couple of woman who have had losses at 18 - 20 weeks in our local group.