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Low-carb bootcamp

Low carb puts pressure on your pancreas and liver?

11 replies

Scifi101 · 07/08/2018 11:25

@biwi

I read in the fine publication that is the daily mail that Keto puts pressure on your pancreas and liver because of the high fat nature of the diet.

This is worrying because pancreatic cancer has such poor survival rates.

As you know lots about low carb could you share your thoughts on this @BIWI ?

OP posts:
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BIWI · 07/08/2018 13:52

Even though it's the Daily Fail, please could you send me a link to that story?

To be honest, it sounds like yet another scare story. We all ate a high or higher fat diet pre the 1980s, and I don't think that we were all dying from liver or pancreas failure then. But happy Hmm for the Daily Mail to prove me wrong.

I think @StuntNun is the person we need to come along with the proper scientific credentials in this instance!

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StuntNun · 07/08/2018 14:59

I can’t find this article on the Daily Mail’s website. I’ve been reading about low carb diets for over five years and I’ve never heard anything like this before.

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UtterlyUnimaginativeUsername · 07/08/2018 16:40

I was diagnosed with non-alcoholic steatohepatitis 15 years ago. I was told that I would be lucky to last another 5 years. My liver has been struggling to function since then. I've been doing keto (on and off) for a year and my liver function has, for the first time since diagnosis, returned to normal.

Purely anecdotal, I know, but at least backed up with actual blood tests before and after.

I'm diabetic too and my blood sugar is much better regulated as well, which would make for a happier pancreas.

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DramaAlpaca · 07/08/2018 16:48

Link to Daily Mail article here

I'm interested to hear StuntNun's and BIWI's take on it too.

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Hobbes8 · 07/08/2018 17:36

That article confused the hell out of me by mentioning several conflicting views about ketones. Apparently your body produces them by any means of weight loss, not just low carb. But it goes on to say ketones were also found in children who were gaining weight on a low carb diet, which suggests it’s he low carb rather than the weight loss. Then the epilepsy study was specifically about using a low carb diet to produce ketones, which suggests it needs to be low carb rather than just a weight loss diet.

The info on the impact on the liver and pancreas was pretty scant.

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StuntNun · 07/08/2018 20:53

First of all the Low Carb Bootcamp is not a keto diet. We positively encourage the consumption of FLGV (fuck loads of green veg) which increases the carbohydrate intake to well above the levels required for nutritional ketosis. This also counters the probably unfounded insistence on fibre since there will be lots of fibre in the vegetables and salad suggested in Bootcamp, and even more fibre when berries and nuts are reintroduced after the first two weeks when we enter Bootcamp Light.

There is no reason for a low carb/ketogenic diet to be "costly". There are plenty of low cost low carb foods such as eggs and cheap cuts of meat.

"Keto flu" is a temporary situation that happens to some people, but not everybody, during adaption. If you are suffering from "nausea, insomnia (haven't heard of that one myself) and dizziness" then it will pass in a couple of days and there are steps you can take to resolve these issues such as replacing electrolytes and taking your regular painkiller. This is nothing to do with "The diet is not balanced and can easily cause nutrient deficiencies." Keto flu is caused by switching from a standard to a low carbohydrate intake.

"The keto diet... includes the Atkins diet, the South Beach diet and the Zone diet." Nope, nope, and nope. Atkins and South Beach are only likely to be ketogenic during the first two weeks. The Zone diet emphasises vegetables and fruits and permits small amounts of grains so it isn't ketogenic.

"Ketones are produced in weight loss regardless of the type of diet you are following. So, actually, anyone who is losing weight is acutally on a keto diet." Well no. You may produce ketones during sleep so this is partially true but a keto diet is a therapeutic diet produced by keeping carbohydrate intake very low and also limiting protein intake. You may still be "in ketosis" since this covers a wide range of ketone levels but you aren't following a keto diet unless you're trying very hard to.

The next few paragraphs are a bit of a confused mess. No it doesn't matter to your body whether it's burning fat from your stores or from your diet but in the context of a low carb diet it does seem to be important to have a enough dietary fat coming in to promote effective usage of fat stores. No the production of ketones is largely irrelevant to the amount of body fat you are burning which is why we don't recommend using ketostix on Bootcamp. Yes when you add fat as bulletproof coffee it can defeat the object of achieving weight loss although when you are close to your target weight it can also help to achieve weight loss. On both low carb and keto diets you are not "adding additional fat to the diet", you are replacing your calories from carbohydrate with fat calories. It is the satiating effects of low carb and keto diets that leads to a spontaneous decrease in calorie intake. Finally I would bloody well hope that children on ketogenic diets gain weight since children are supposed to gain weight. Unless they're seriously overweight you never want a child to be losing weight.

Going on to the Another fad? section... diets for therapeutic ketosis have been round for about a century and were the only treatments for type 2 diabetes and epilepsy before medicines became available. That doesn't really matter though because unless you have a medical condition that you are hoping to treat with ketosis then there's no need to be so restrictive and a liberal low carb diet will be far more pleasant and easy to stick to.

"The diet is not balanced and can easily lead to nutrient deficiencies" - sounds like the author is starting to panic now. There aren't any nutrients contained in potatoes, rice, and bread that you can't obtain from vegetables. The biggest problem area with low carb diets is obtaining electrolytes such as sodium, potassium, and magnesium however these can all be obtained from natural food sources. Add a little extra salt to your food, a squeeze of lemon juice, and half an avocado and you're topped up on all of these minerals. Keto flu is not a consequence of nutrient deficiencies, it is a temporary phase of the adaption process that, as I mentioned before, not everyone experiences.

The next panic-inducing statement is about the impact on gut microbes starved of essential fibre. I guarantee that if you post your daily food on the Bootcamp threads and there are no veggies on there then you will receive a stern talking to from BIWI.

The following paragraph is confusing as the author correctly asserts that most people that claim to follow a keto diet are actually following a low carbohydrate diet that the author admits "can be helpful, at least in the short term, for some people to lose weight." The claim that most people can't stick with a very low carbohydrate diet for long is simply preposterous. The Interwebs is filled with people that have been doing this for 5, 10, 20 years, since Atkins first became popular, since before it was well known. There are so many associated health benefits with eating a low carb diet than an awful lot of us couldn't even consider going back to a standard UK diet. My arthritis is in remission, my periods are lighter, my teeth are cleaner, my IBS has disappeared, I sleep better, my cholesterol levels are improved. Even if I did gain all the weight back I would still eat this way because I feel ten years younger than I did five years ago when I first started.

If you're using a low carb diet to treat diabetes or polycystic ovarian symptom then I concur with the author's recommendation to consult your doctor. It will certainly affect your blood sugar levels and you will need your doctor's advice on whether you need to reduce your medication accordingly.

The blanket statement that people with pancreatic or liver problems sounds scary. The pancreas secretes enzymes involved in the processing of fat, but it also secretes the enzymes involved in the processing of protein and carbs so if the balance of food coming in changes it will downregulate the carb enzymes and upregulate the fat enzymes. That doesn't place any additional stress on the pancreas. A low carbohydrate diet is a good way to reduce the fat in a fatty liver. It won't magically repair your liver if it is already damaged but there is no reason to think it will make it any worse. If you do have a pancreatic or liver problem and you were worried about it being an issue then the simple solution would be to increase your fat consumption gradually, for example switching to one low carb meal a day at first, then two, and then three. While a low carb diet is higher in fat than a conventional diet you don't need to be adding butter to your coffee or drinking cream out of the pot. It's fine to stick to the natural fat in meat, fish and dairy.

I'm going to have to give up there. Let me know if you have any questions.

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delphguelph · 07/08/2018 20:56

Mega post, stunt nun

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BIWI · 07/08/2018 21:57

Thanks very much @StuntNun for that post - truly informative and really helpful.

I hope that reassures you, OP?

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Scifi101 · 07/08/2018 22:38

Wow Thankyou @StuntNun!

You really dissected that article.

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BIWI · 08/08/2018 07:25

There's not a lot I can add to what SuntNun has written, although I will pick up on a few points:

People with pancreatic or liver problems, or problems with fat metabolism should also avoid the ketogenic diet. This is because the diet is so high in fat that it puts added pressure on both organs, which are essential for fat metabolism.

People who have any medical problems should see their doctor before embarking on any kind of diet, as it can interfere with their medication, as well as other important health markers. We always advise this at the beginning of every Bootcamp.

This is because the diet is not balanced and can easily lead to nutrient deficiencies, nausea, vomiting, headache, tiredness, dizziness, insomnia, poor exercise tolerance and constipation – sometimes referred to as keto flu

I don't know enough about the keto diet to know if it's balanced or not, but there's a conflation here of 'carb flu' - the first few days of a low carb diet - and the accusation of nutrient deficiencies of a severely restricted intake. Anyone who has taken part in Bootcamp knows that we advocate eating plenty of vegetables and salad, as well as allowing fruit, nuts and seeds after the first couple of weeks. So if you're following a low carb diet you shouldn't be deprived of any nutrients. Indeed, I'd argue (from everything that's been posted on Bootcamps over the years), many people probably have better nutritional intake when they take part, compared with their previous diet!

Carb flu - or keto flu as they call it - is a temporary thing, which will last only a few days as you go through carb withdrawal. It's unpleasant if you suffer from it (not everyone does) but can be dealt with by ensuring your electrolytes are kept up/in balance - sodium, magnesium and potassium - which can be done with food and/or supplements like Zero electrolyte tablets, and taking a painkiller to deal with any headaches.

But concerns include the impact on important gut microbes that are likely to be starved of essential fibre required for healthy balance

This won't happen on Bootcamp for the reasons given above!

However, as with the true ketogenic diet, most people can't stick with a very low carbohydrate diet for long.

It's true that it's hard to stick to a VLCD - by which is generally meant under 20g carbs per day. But most people can lose weight consuming more carbs than this per day, quite easily.

The latest research shows that it's the ability to stick to the diet that matters.

Well, doh!

Inducing ketosis – a natural state for the body, when it is almost completely fuelled by fat – in therapeutic diets is a skill that needs the close supervision of a dietitian in a specialist clinic.

You don't need to be in ketosis to lose weight. This is really important. For the very large majority of us, restricting our carbs is sufficient to help us lose weight.

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ilovecherries · 16/08/2018 17:14

I always feel better when I’ve read one of Stuntnun’s explanations, because a part of me still finds it hard to believe that this worked. :).

For me, the bottom line is that I used to be 16 and a half stone. After 16 months on a LCHF diet I’m just over 11. My bmi is within the healthy range. I feel better than I have for decades. Decades when all the calorie counting in the world didn’t work. When I felt morally corrupt for being so fat. I find it really hard to believe that I’m not healthier now than I was 18 months ago. I wasn’t a glutton - in fact I had will power of steel. But I couldn’t lose weight, I was constantly hungry and I knew the fat gms and calories of everything I put in my mouth. It’s hard to believe that something that gave me my life back could be doing me anything but good. I don’t randomly shove fat down my throat, but I do dress my veggies and salads, or mash my eggs with butter. I eat probably 8 portions of veg a day, divided over two meals. I have no idea if I’m in ketosis or not, but I would doubt it given the amount of veg I eat. My guess though is that my liver, pancreas and gut are all happier and healthier than they used to be.

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