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have you ever split a birthday day?

(21 Posts)
cestlavielife Wed 08-Jul-09 15:20:40

long backsotry but ex has ahd supervised contact at contact centre til alst week - i ahve been pushed by CAFCASS to allow supervised outside centre with erpson i agree to.

dd birthdya sunday. he will see her friday with the person supervising.

i ahve told him we busy sunday with my sisters, dds cousinsetc.

now he emails:

I left a message with xxx[cafcass officer] this morning in regard of dd's birthday
as I will like to make arrangements for her to celebrate her birthday
with me on Sunday

On Sunday morning Jxx and Dxxx are available. We can pick dd and
dd2 in the morning to celebrate and if you prepare some sandwiches we
can get a great time from 9:00 until 15:00. Then dd and dd2 can
expend the rest of the day with you 15:00 to 21:00 this makes a half day

There is no sustainable reason why we can no split the day and the
children will have time and see both parents
I think this is fair, reasonable and above all it is the best for our

what do you think?


cestlavielife Wed 08-Jul-09 15:22:07

ps is me asking "what do you thin" his msg went on and on about other stuff but i am asking MNeters what you think?

GypsyMoth Wed 08-Jul-09 15:26:59

From contact centre to that?
Half a day each?

He's dictating, or trying to, if you let him!!

No way!

MrsMichaelSchofield Wed 08-Jul-09 15:27:12

what age is dd? would she be up until 9 and so would you actually be able to spend that time with her?

Don't understand the sandwiches bit!

In theory it's nice to spend half a day each with you, but I think it depends on her age. Too busy or long a day might be unworkable if very young

MrsMichaelSchofield Wed 08-Jul-09 15:27:48

why is his contact supervised?

cestlavielife Wed 08-Jul-09 16:26:22

2007 he was self harming, threatening suicide, attacked our oldest son who is disabled, was admitted to psych unit. went away to his home country. returned dec 07 to visit children was in spare room then refused to leave joint home. behaviour untenable eg trying to sleep in my bed with me when i amde it clear no, calling me "full of sh$t" in front of dcs. april 2008 i moved to rented flat with dcs. he was visiting them there but refused to accept separation. august 2008 he pushed and showved me, smashed bin, put fist thru door, threw away phone and held us hostage refused to leave etc.

order at court in oct for supervised contact.

now his doctors saying "is not depressed has no mental health issues"

he told judge in december he was only admitted to pysch unit in 2007 because "my wife would not let me come home and i had nowhere to go"....

he says in rest of email:

"Your concerns about my mental health were and are unfound and had been
proved and certified by doctors"

I reiterate – my concerns are not so much about mental health eg depression but about anger and violence, controlling and unpredictable behaviour.

bumpybecky Wed 08-Jul-09 16:33:03

how old is your daughter? and what does she want? it's her birthday, I think providing she's old enough to have an opinon, she should get to chose what to do

cestlavielife Wed 08-Jul-09 17:20:48

she is 6. turns 7 on sunday

she has said see her dad on friday. get her present from him then.

she says have the family do on sunday.

Surfermum Wed 08-Jul-09 17:31:04

On the face of it (as I don't know all the history) I think it's fair enough that wants to see her on her actual birthday, not be told that his day is Friday and that she's busy with you.

I think splitting the day into morning and afternoon would be better, but I can see that he's just trying to make it equal and in his eyes fair. But 9 o'clock on a night before school is late (at least for my dd, maybe not for yours - depends on her usual bedtime).

I think he's completely taking the piss asking you to prepare sandwiches, he should do that himself!

I think if you don't agree to it you might leave yourself open to criticism from CAFCASS - you may come across as being obstructive about contact.

But equally I can understand how you want the perfect day for her birthday and it might not be like that. Could you agree to some hours in the morning while you get her party ready?

ridingjoker Wed 08-Jul-09 18:33:06

i think splitting a day like this for a 6/7 yo is too much. by the time she comes home in the afternoon she will be shattered and unable to see your family.

i agree splitting it into morning and then she can come home for lunch (as he esxpects you to make it, she might as well eat it at your) and afternoon for you to visit family.

perhaps let him get her as early as she'll be up and ready. and then he has a good few hrs before lunch time. perhaps make lunch a late one of about 1pm as no doubt he will (hopefully) spoil her with some sort of snack or treat as her birthday anyway before lunch.

NotPlayingAnyMore Wed 08-Jul-09 19:16:00

9am to 3pm is not suitable for a 7 year old at all. Not only will she be too knackered to spend any quality time with you, but he'll be leaving you to calm her down from his visit before bed as well.

This is, however, besides the point: he's just trying to win the (non-existent) competition to decide who can be the best parent on her birthday.
If he was genuinely bothered about it, he would've requested a change of contact day sooner than the Wednesday before the Sunday.

"There is no sustainable reason" shows he know's he's being unreasonable.
"I think this is fair, reasonable and above all it is the best for our children" - well, DD obviously doesn't agree.

I can quite believe that "is not depressed" and "has no mental health issues" because he's just a nasty c*nt

If I'd received this e-mail, I'd just pretend I hadn't checked them until it was too late, but it is already too late to change these plans anyway.

Either way, he can make his own f*cking sandwiches hmm

bumpybecky Wed 08-Jul-09 21:06:31

I'd say that's far too late for a 7 year old. Ridingjoker's plan of morning with him, lunch and afternoon, evening with you is much more sensible.

Do not make him sandwiches!

cestlavielife Thu 09-Jul-09 11:11:53

thanks - i can certainly see some sense in sharing the day, so abrring teh sandwiches issue and timings in theory tehre should be room for neogtiaton.

however, the person he is proposing they have not had a chance to go out for even short times with him yet. he is his mate - and someone who believes we should get back together... so I am not willing to send them off "into the unknown" with J at this stage.

the other thing is that the email didnt end there on arrangemetns - he then went off for realms of stuff about the "children being the fruit of our love " "we can be happy if you want to be"

"I do not keep anything against you, I never did. You are the mother of
my children. If I didn't think you were wonderful person and that you
will be a good wife and mother I wouldn't have been with you all of
these years, nor wouldn't have had three children."

"I joy and thank life for everyone of our three children especially for
ds I am a good father and perhaps one day you will see different. All
relationship had minors and majors but relationships are built on love,
tolerance, selflessness, maturity, forgiveness, affection."

"Are our children blaming us or stop loving us, no. Here is nobody to
blame, but for change and rectify this situation."

"Hurt is inevitable in any relation and what it happened to us was
unintentional. I did not intentionally and premeditatedly create the
situation that broke us. "

-- so if it wasnt intentional then was he sick? he says now he wasnt!
goes round in circles.

"In fact much more the opposite since I left my
work I dedicated myself to my family and my children and I only wanted
to be able to make you and the children as happy as I can and I know we
can be truly happy if we put our hearts on it, but this is up to you and
to us all"

-- he resigned his work over stress; he then spent two years moaning and complaining how hard it was being a SAHD and how awful it was having to take them to school twice a day and shop and cook, how lucky i was going to work etc.he wished he never resigned his work. he said so many times "is this it? life is not worth living" that i began mentally preparing his funeral...

rewriting history.

no matter - if he only stuck to talking about arrangements i would have some sympathy but he is still stuck into some idea of us all being happy together....

to me he comes across as mentally unstable therefore i dont trust him with the kids. and while willing to give it a go with his mate J, i am not prepared for the first time out with them to be on her special day...

ok so i might be critised in court when we go at end august - then i will promise to allow contact on her birthday day next time. we can put that in the order.

NotPlayingAnyMore Thu 09-Jul-09 19:35:21

Oh - you posted this thread, didn't you?

So, update us: is contact currently at the centre or elsewhere now?

Surfermum Thu 09-Jul-09 19:48:39

I thought the people supervising were the ones who were doing it on the Friday, so it was really the date/time that was changing.

If it's a completely different person who you aren't happy with then I think it's a different matter, and I think CAFCASS will understand your concern.

Could you agree to contact on her birthday with a different supervisor?

What a difficult situation for you.

cestlavielife Fri 10-Jul-09 15:05:36

yes - we ahd the conact centre sessions and glowing reports - so cafcass officer said look we wont pay for any more.

there is a contact centre in xxxx which is free but it only operates saturday 10-1 pm - which we cannot make as have music classes.

she persuaded me to go for mutually agreed times when i agree who supervises - so today they going with a person i agree and trust to meet him at soft play cente. we will see how it goes.

CAFCASS officer did agree that it was about moving things slowly forward. six hours sunday is nt "slow" not is it mutally agreed.

he is becoming more intimidating now - and jeez he goes on "> because I always think great of you and love you, "

ugh - i feel stalked and harassed and intimidated. but i wont give in on sunday.

"> We already had six session at xxx centre and all session had
> been excellent
> and all feed back is more than positive and documented. have not yet seen the reports]
> There is much
> questioning about my mental health, as it is about yours, or the dds,
> Our children are the victims right now, with no family and
> two parents > in conflict.
> Shame on ourselves you and me, honestly!
> the dcs want and need the love, care and
> attention of
> their father as much as their mother I have never asked or
> will ask
> them
> to be without you
> Anything positive, al the joy, love and happiness that we
> have had is
> always come out form us, you and me and so is the
> opposite.
> I could no have a family without you and I made a family
> with you
> because I always think great of you and love you, I am
> sorry if it
> hasn't been perfect and i am sorry I was unwell. I never
> wanted and I
> do
> not want to be that way
> I want to enjoy life and do the best for my family and my
> children
> May be nobody could do any better when we went trough this
> difficult
> time, but is past and I do not keep anything against
> in my heart, this
> is the way to a change.
> Sometimes you have to use your heart and live your head
> behind, so we
> did and the dds omits his ds here] are here with us
> Sometimes we do not know how to take things and we are
> afraid to
> recognise and ask for help.
> Nobody wanted or premeditatedly created that situation.
> We all know that understanding, love, care and affection
> are positively
> helpful and resolve conflicts and difficult
> situations. Hope, trust,
> tolerance, understanding help more that overreacting and
> destroying.
> It is up to us the present and the future and what we do
> will not only
> shape our children's future, but how they are as adults,
> their ability
> to form a loving, caring and happy family. Look at the joy
> of other
> broken families. Do you want this for the dds he omits his ds
> What are we teaching our children resentfulness,
> unforgiveness,
> selfishness, to section people, destroying a family, Would
> they abandon
> ds in the future and forget about their brother too?
> I opt to forgive to love and to give and I hope you too and
> we can all
> see beyond this point
>dd's Birthday
> No matter what arrangements you have done, they are no
> impossible to
> change specially on dd's birthday.
> Did it matter what arrangement we had back on 12th of July
> 2002?
> 7 years ago we drop everything to welcome dd to this
> world and I
> was there with you, and I do not remember anybody else
> attending
> besides
> the midwife. There was only you, me and dd
> That day was and still is unique and so special it is in
> our hearts and
> we celebrate every year on this day
> If xxxxxxxxxxxxx are
> visiting
> it is no a problem unless somebody wants to make it. I have
> organised
dd a birthday party with xxx and xxx this Sunday as it
> is her
> birthday.
> the dds will have a great time. Don't you want
> them this and
> do not think they deserve it?
> Please reflect, if their cousins want to come with them
> much the
> better,
> it will be fantastic, they are invited and very welcome. We
> might go
> bowling all together or do something else that they will
> really enjoy
whoever wants to came is welcome "the more
> the merrier"
> To denied our children to celebrate their birthday with
> their family
> and
> their father and mother is no right.
> This has already happened to ds twice and back in
> and to dd1 in March 2009
> PLEASE see different, do not do this to dd and to
> yourself
> Best wishes

cestlavielife Fri 10-Jul-09 15:08:53

ps my emails have been short businesslike and to the point eg "sorry sunday is not possible due to other plans but they can meet you on friday at 3 pm "


i dont go into any of this palaver as he does at all!

NotPlayingAnyMore Fri 10-Jul-09 18:06:42

"No matter what arrangements you have done, they are no impossible to change specially on dd's birthday." - that's not the point. The point is that a birthday party has already been organised and DD obviously already knew about these plans, had been looking forward to them and cannot be expected to drop everything at such short notice for any reason, let alone just because X is being competitive. If asked, that's all you have to say.

"the dcs want and need the love, care and attention of their father as much as their mother I have never asked or will ask them to be without you" - er, why bring it up then? hmm

"Hope, trust, tolerance, understanding help more that overreacting and destroying." - disagreeing with him doesn't = "overreacting and destroying"

And "I opt to forgive" - you don't need forgiving.

All this happy clappy stuff doesn't disguise his true colours coming through, does it?!

"If xxxxxxxxxxxxx are visiting it is no a problem unless somebody wants to make it." - that person being him!
As for inviting DD's cousins, if he thinks he can go from contact centre to being responsible for other people's children given his history, he's seriously deluded.

He's using some interesting words for someone whose grasp of English obviously isn't great. Either he's consulting a thesaurus or someone is prompting him.
Do you think someone could be advising him to ask for such a lot so that you compromise on something more reasonable but which you wouldn't have agreed to originally?

How did soft play go today?

cestlavielife Mon 13-Jul-09 12:06:49

ok so friday's contact went ok, and saurday with his son went ok - both supervised by carer I know well. satturday was ds school fair, apprently exP was overbearing with ds's teachers trying to show them stuff on his ipod??

sunday was fine with my family.

i realised that the reason the emails impacted so much on me - is that the emails he sent last week are exactly the sort of language, verbal assaults which he used last year in person – only then they were accompanied by physical intimidation, cornering me, grabbing my arms to make me listen etc.

This is why they have an impact on me – it reopens the terror I had of him last year, not knowing what he might do. and eventually in august 2008 he blew up, smashed bin, pushed me etc.

sunday he texted to ask to leave more presents for dd - agreed 3 pm then he changed it to 6 pm, finally he dropped stuff at 6.45. (left by door we dont open door to him) whatever.

left a note - and some dough he had made with instrucitons on how to make croquettes, - "dear dd you need to mkae these croquettes with mummy, you must make balls, dip in egg, then coat in breadcrumbs and fry in a fry pan, it will be great fun"

setting them up to be disapointed if i dont perform!

i said to dd, "look i dont have time today". she says "it is ok we can tell him we ate them!"

i said, "we dont need to lie...if he asks you you can tell him mummy said she didnt have time sorry"

However, my main concern is the last bit where he says "i miss you very much" but "hope to be with you dd2 and ds *every day* very soon” .

where has he got the idea that he could see them “every day” ?

Even in the best of circumstances this is not going to happen – just as, in the best of circumstances, I would expect to share parenting and not see them every day. It is unrealistic to suggest this to the children, and again it sets them up to be disappointed.


NotPlayingAnyMore Tue 14-Jul-09 00:33:43

At this rate, he'll only end up proving himself too unreliable for the contact arrangements he seeks.

Where are you supposed to get egg and breadcrumbs at 6.45pm on a Sunday night?!

Myself and XP live only 15 minutes walk apart, get on unusually well enough not to affect DS's contact and even they don't see each other every day, so yours has a bat's chance in hell.

SparkleyBaubles Tue 14-Jul-09 08:07:07

It sounds to me like his "every day" comment is aimed at the possibility of you two getting back together again. It is a very upsetting thing to say to children in this kind of situation though if they are of an age where they can understand. x

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