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not mothers for justice...mums for equality-anyone care to join me?

(46 Posts)
treaclepudd Sun 29-Jun-08 17:44:04

I know there are Fathers for Justice and other small groups around but does anyone know of a group against the csa or a group for mothers calling to be treated fairly upon seperation?

I've seen lots of post on here from distraught women, and men, whom the law seems to be ignoring. I know children's rights are paramount and I follow that and agree. However, after 13 years in a relationship with a complete ** it seems that I have to be continually in this position for as long as the children live with me.
For example, my solicitor writes a letter asking his new partner not to come near me after 4 months of mallicious, crude, vile and upsetting text messages etc. The letters remind him not to turn up 4 hours late, to ensure any homework is done etc etc and I cannot afford any more letters and what I have sent are ignored by my ex anyway. Surely he should be taking equal responsibility for the children in every area of their lives, not just fun times on saturday.
My solicitor says there is not much I can do. It seems that the law supports your ex [usually male] in what ever way it can at the expense of you [mum; usually] and thereby your children as they get upset when ever you are.
I dont understand how someone can treat another person so horribly and get away with it. Just thinking that if it were a case at an employment tribunal it wouldn't be allowed to continue. There shouldn't be so many people made to 'put up and shut up' [my ex's favourite catch phrase]. How someone can treat your children so appaulingly [for example on fathers day my ex told my son he didnt want to see him because he didnt want to leave his new partner for that day, my ex didnt phone to see how his daughter was for over 13 days after I had to take her to hospital 2 times because she was so ill, he hasn't wanted to spend xmas, half term, easter or last half term with them, he never phones them etc etc] ...and still he gets away with it and i have to bend and cower for him because of the children [who half the time dread going off with him].
My point is I bring up the children, all my money goes on them [which I dont mind], all my thoughts are with them and he swans in and out of their lives and seems to be able to so and do what he likes to me and them [he sees them fortnightly despite my offers of him having them midweek etc].
I work full time and get 20% net from my ex through csa. He lives on three times as much as me and our two children and his new partner also you can probably triple that figure [as they live together]. I am tired, worn out, frustrated and cross. He chose to just leave me above relate and trying beforehand. All this is his choice, yet the children and I have to put up with him basically two years on, still having to pander to and do what he wants regardless of what I or they say or want.
The csa website says 20% is right to keep the children living in the same standard as they were before the split?
Isn't there anything we can do-i know im not alone!? I know alot of women have had worse than me and Im not ungrateful for what I have got but it seems all wrong in this day and age.
Anyone...shall we? or can someone point me in the right direction?

stillovefoxes Sun 29-Jun-08 17:58:35

If your asking if you can get more money then the answer is no, if I was you I'd be grateful that the NRP pays regualry and doesn't use avoidence tactics. You better hope he doesn't have any more children as well as that will reduce the amount yoou get even further.

prettyfly1 Sun 29-Jun-08 18:02:55

hey there. i have mixed feelings on this. lost dad is on here somewhere and he has almost the opposite opinion - he desperately wants to be there and his ex makes it as difficult as possible regardless of what he pays. i think the law is incredibly difficult. i am actually trying to get a release of parental responsibility drawn up to stop my ex coming back. either way no matter what you put in line in terms of laws and declarations you are never going to make a bad dad into a good dad and money is never going to make him treat your children nicely. i cant answer your problems but the way i am trying to look at it (and believe me i fell your frustration) is this. at least no matter how awfully your ex behaves your children have one parent who loves them, is there for them and never ever lets them down - one day when they have grown they will see the truth and and be grateful for everything you did. it doesnt help when there is a mountain of bills, piles of washing and it never seems to stop i know and you cant have a life of your own while they do whatever they want but i really believe what goes around comes around. they will thank you one day and not want to know him.

stillovefoxes Sun 29-Jun-08 18:05:27

I agree with prettyfly, when the children are older they will relise the truth and its then that your ex will be made to pay for his bad treatment them.

prettyfly1 Sun 29-Jun-08 18:07:02

nothing like your own kids looking at you with no respect to make you feel like scum.

colditz Sun 29-Jun-08 18:08:58

I don't think being grateful he isn't shitter than he is already is going to make the op feel any better, personally I prefer to save my gratitude for those who deserve it more, like traffic wardens and chuggers.

stillovefoxes Sun 29-Jun-08 18:12:59

If I was a PWC whose ex paid regulary and didn't job swap to avoid CSA I'd be grateful.

prettyfly1 Sun 29-Jun-08 18:15:22

hey guys come on - we have it hard enough as lone parents of either sex without gunnning for each other as well. money is not the only issue here - the op sounds very frustrated and down and its such a huge responsibility to deal with alone not to mention heartbreaking to watch your child suffer when the other parent lets them down and feel powerless to stop it happening. lets just try and be supportive as well eh?

stillovefoxes Sun 29-Jun-08 18:39:30

I'm not a lone parent, my dp is an NRP. He has one child by his ex, who he pays for regulary and has a lot of contact with.
Maybe thats why I sounded harsh, I think that as the OP gets 20% of NRP's wages regulary, finacially, she should be happy that he isn't one of the many NRP's that pay nothing or mess the CSA around.
I do sympathise with the OP reg. the NRP's behaviour towards the children (see my other post).

prettyfly1 Sun 29-Jun-08 19:12:16

still love - its quite brave of you to admit that on here - not a lot of sympathy for new girlfriends from previous partners in this area of the site. however you can have sympathy but if you havent experienced the frustration of sleepless nights with noone to support you, money that never stretches far enough, kids disappointed and hurting and a life that never seems to get easier i dont think its really appropriate to comment. i know you have had a bit of a mare with your dp x but seriously if you were the one watching your ex and his new partner doing what your perceive to be whatever according to their own schedule and you were left at home with little or no life you would feel somewhat aggrieved as well.

as for the csa op - i tend to avoid it. money always seems to make people bitter and cant replace the support of a lost parent but i am lucky enough now to earn enough to cope. in the early days i went without gas for three weeks and had to bath my one year old at my mums and wear four layers of clothing to keep the house warm. it sucks and nothing makes you more resentful. just hang on in there chuck. he will get his one day.

stillovefoxes Sun 29-Jun-08 20:47:40

Yous shouldn't jump to conclusions prettyfly. I have been with dp for 9 years. he had split up with his ex 3 years before I meet him, and there had been a few girlfriends in between.

Its not only single monthers that struggle, in actual fact, thanks to the benefit system in this country, his ex has more free income than me and dp have. My daughter gets less his first child.

And thanks to the CSA, I have had plenty of sleepless nights, worrying if my daughter will have a roof over head because we cant afford the mortgage. The council don't pay my mortgage or my council tax.

So I don't think its approaite for you to comment on my life unless you know the facts.

prettyfly1 Sun 29-Jun-08 20:58:06

still love i do know as much as you have posted and i feel for you really i do but without wanting to hijack this post which was about someone elses suffering and needs to be respected you chose to get involved with someone who had a child before you came along. fifteen percent is not a huge amount out of someone elses income to provide in the fair and equal upbringing of a child two people conceived. like i said i know you have had a mare but at the end of the day when you go to bed worrying about the bills you have someone to share it with. you have someone to talk about it to and you have someone to vent at. you dont go through it alone. also how do you know op is on benefits. i am a single parent and i am not. noone but me pays my bills. this is not an argument about whether the state system is fair, and my comment about innapropriateness was you seemed to make this womans suffering about money - which it clearly is not. i am sorry that your family are struggling but this is not the place for this.

colditz Sun 29-Jun-08 21:00:40

SLF the council doesn't pay anyone's mortgage, what an amusing misconception you have. The council will pay your rent if you are unable to work.

You do not get to keep a rented house, you do not get to pass it down to your grandchildren, you do not get to sell it to pay for decent nursing home care when you are elderly.

If I could cough up 15% of my income (which is all your dp is legally obliged to pay for one child, not 20%) and have total assurance that my children were cared for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (because contact is optional on the NRP's part) by someone who would lay down their life to protect them, leaving me free to pursue my career, relationships and maybe even a new family, I'd think I'd landed on Mars.

It's piss all to be able to completely abdicate any responsibility - I'm not saying most NRPs do, but they can.

colditz Sun 29-Jun-08 21:05:17

And as for "My daughter gets less"

Your daughter gets 90% of your partner's time. It's something his oldest doesn't get. I'm sure the 'benefits system' will go some way towards soothing the hurt though.

prettyfly1 Sun 29-Jun-08 21:05:35

and again - then you get men like lost dad who is doing the best he can to support his little one and she is making his life hell. he sounds like a great bloke who really loves his kids and he is suffering really badly. the system is unfair and colditz has a bloody good point. if your partners kids lived with him when you met him how much less money would you have then? cause its a hell of a lot more then he is paying out. op should not have to be grateful that the father of her children, a man she married and loved is giving financially. its his flaming responsibility.

prettyfly1 Sun 29-Jun-08 21:06:55

colditz another very good point. thats why i stay away from the money argument. just makes people bitter. time is worth a million times more and i would give anything to give my son that.

stillovefoxes Sun 29-Jun-08 21:54:47

I used the wrong terminolgy when I posted the first reply, I shouldn't have said 'grateful', I should have said she should be 'happy' she is recieving regular monet as there are many that don't. Apart from that I haven't been horrible or nasty in my posts to the OP. I agreed with you prettyfly and said the NRP will get his comeuppence.

dp doesn't feel as if hes landed on mars colditz, he actually cares enough to want to be with his dd all the time. Its not his choice he is a NRP, and I don't begrude his dd1 anything, not time with her dad or money. If we could have her living with us we would, we have asked enough times. And why do you all assume the x is a single parent ..she isn't.

Every single assumption the pair of you have made about me has been wrong, its easy to put people in boxes and label them but life is rarely that black and white.

colditz Sun 29-Jun-08 22:04:55

You post as if we are working in tandem herehmm

Your partner's ex's new partner is not your partner's dd1's dad.

And you can't offer your child 15% of your wage to stop crying for their dad at 3am.

UIt's great that your partner is a good dad - many are crap at beuing there for their children and the op is moaning about one of those, not your partner.

And really, 20% of your wage does not REMOTELY cover the cost of raising 2 children. NRPs get off lightly financially.

stillovefoxes Sun 29-Jun-08 22:14:53

I dont think you are reading my posts correctly,
I have never and would never call ex's partner her dad. (and stop making assumptions, he is not her new boyfriend. she left my dp for him so her boyfriend has been around longer than me!)

I said that the OPs ex would get his commuppence, I am not defending him or saying that the money excuses his behaviour, so yoour comment reg. the child crying at 3am doesn't make sense.

I said you were both making assumptions because you were both making incorrect assumptions (you are still doing it)

colditz Sun 29-Jun-08 22:29:40

Your point re your daughter gets less - financially, maybe she does. She gets more of Daddy though. And my point about a child not being pacified by 15% of the NRPs wages is that the daughter who gets to live with both her parents instead of one of them and 15% of the other's wage is the daughter who is better off.

I am really not interested in who left who for who and what reason, none of that has any bearing on how hard children find it to live in a broken family, or how hard it is when fathers won't be there for their children.

SparklePrincess Sun 29-Jun-08 22:38:26

I totally relate to where youre coming from TP. I feel like im in exactly the same position myself. Ex can do whatever he pleases & im expected to bend over backwards to enable him to spend his limited (his choice) contact time with the dc or be accused of being a contact blocker. When he does have them he takes them to Ikea or clothes shopping for his girlfriend, then he wonders why they dont want to go with him. hmm

1066andallthat Sun 29-Jun-08 22:39:58

treaclepudd - you can't change him: he is never going to be the father your children deserve.

Doing the right thing by your children is the only way forward. He isn't worth this investment of time, money, solicitor's letters, or even a court case - because some people will never improve, never do what they should, nor be the parent they could have been.

My LO's therapist talked to me about certain character traits the other week - some people are beyond any redemption. It was like someone had turned on a light-bulb. I will, now, only invest in us. No, I won't let him walk all over me - we are at the very horrid stage where there is no communication and what there is, is now through my solicitor. It is the pits.

But, then, go have a peek at your kids, when they are busy, asleep or being nice to each other and who is the loser? Yes, it is knackering working and struggling financially and under all the responsibility but you are being your DC's rolemodel: a responsible, caring, decent human-being.

Live well: smile at the little things and surround yourself with friends and good family - oh, and cats (optional).

stillovefoxes Sun 29-Jun-08 22:50:29

I still don't understand what your point is, I said my dd gets less finanically and its true, fact. I wasn't discussing the amount time she gets with each parent, I was talking about money.

before you even came on this thread I said the OP's ex behaviour wasn't acceptable.

prettyfly1 Sun 29-Jun-08 23:02:55

1066 - well said and a much more articulately put version of what i was trying to. its so hard when you feel lonely and frustrated and tired not to rage with bitterness but ultimately we have the greatest blessing there is. beautiful children who love us and we are doing the best we can for. bollocks to the blokes cause ultimately when their old they will have noone. we will have our families. good luck to you and big hugs.

colditz Sun 29-Jun-08 23:09:32

My point is why the Hell should we think ourselves lucky to have 20% of a wage (after tax) chucked at us without the support that goes with being a part of a parenting double act? Why lucky? Why grateful? If my ex just upped sticks and didn't see the children again, but still kept up his AOE, I wouldn't feel lucky or grateful, I would feel aggrieved, gutted for my children that their own father couldn't be bothered and furious that he would seem to be getting off scott free.

A NRP is legally obliged to meet his or her financial responsibilities, why am I lucky if he chooses to do something that will ultimately keep him out of prison? Why should I be grateful? He's their father, not someone I have gone begging to, cap in hand.

The money is not the hardest part of being a lone parent, it's the grief, the stress, the relentlessness of never being able to just shut a door and switch the world off. It must be galling to watch the other parent, the person you chose to have those children with, choose to do just that and permanently too.

I am lucky. My ex hasn't done this. He still turns up, regularly, without too much fuckwittage. I didn't get any money for over a year, but hey, my children aren't pay-per-view. Besides, as I have been trying to ramblingly say, I can cope without the money if I have the support - if the support isn't there, all the money in the owrld won;'t replace it.

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