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Family law !!

(20 Posts)
Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 00:33:42

This is dads second application to court fist one he emailed day before saying he didn't want to see his children, got another one in Jan , caff cass did a feelings and best wishes, to cut a very very long story short , my children's dad has a 5 year restraint order for common assult on me , my leagle aid was granted through proving domestic violence and abuse , been back to court , they have orderd I take my children to a contact center for 6 sessions 3 for 1 hour 3 for 2 hours , my children haven't seen him for nearly a year and half ! The courts want to do a lets see what happens !! If I do t do it , I'll be the one in trouble, if I do it I'm putting them back into a bad situation,they are too young to make that kind of decision, feelings and best wishers were , my s/n ( no , then I don't know / then I want someone to tell me ) how confused is that ! My d/r yes but he's not important to me, can I take my teddy cos I'm worried ? The caff cass report, also what she wants in the hole wide world is a unicorn? He walked out on xmas day , had the kids , after a week lowers the contact , 3 weeks in , one wouldn't stay with him so he Beaufort them back at night , so I said ok have both bring the one back , but let the other stay , I got a text saying that if both wouldn't stay he wasn't having ither , I quote I got I decline the offer to see my kids ! So I contacted a sure start center , on the 3rd week he phoned em and said he wasn't seeing them anymore , hence I know there's more ! Courts his application! Wouldn't comply with caff cass / risk assessment or the alcohol test , then withdrew day before 2 hearing ! What do I do !!

Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 11:27:53

Any advice would be appreciated!

starry0ne Wed 15-Jun-16 11:27:58

I am sorry I find your post confusing..

From what I can make out.. He started contact then gave up and withdrew...

My Ex withdrew before contact even started..CAFCASS said they would keep the report on file. I also still have my copy of the withdrawal..

You should go back to reapply for Legal aid if your case has been closed and get their advice.. I would be taking the line of concern about his commitment..

I would also consider posting this in legal.

The law sucks in these cases..It is damaging imo for parents to come and go.

Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 11:39:47

It's such a long story, he did have contact but every time stopped contact , he's been in and out of the children's life's , every time he stopped having them , I put something else in place , if you read from him walking out to now , he made the first court application last Feb , 2015 , in Aug last year he got the restraing order , in Sep last year he emailed court the day before and withdrew his poplins toon saying he didn't want contact , this Jan I got another, there's a lot more to this , my children haven't had any contact not even a birthday card , I have leagle aid through proving violence , he's a known drinker , the courts have ordered I take them to a contact center, my son doesn't want to do it , my daughter isn't botherd , I don't think that I should take them , as I do t think it's right to put the children into a situation were they haven't seen him for such a long time , just to say to them , there u go go into this room and see your dad , I think contact should take place , but not like this , I wanted the courts to make dad show commitment via a different way first before face to face contact , if I don't take them it's me who gets into trouble and I'm terrified!! But I also know this won't work it's not the right way for the kids , if I contest it , I loose my leagle aid ! So what do I do ?

Lonecatwithkitten Wed 15-Jun-16 12:47:09

Firstly in the nicest possible way people will find it easier to read and reply if you have paragraphs etc as your posts are quite tricky to read.
You need to divide incidents up into what he did to you and his contact with the children. The courts are much less interested in how he treated you.
The court have ordered contact in the contact centre, if you don't go you will have broken the contact order and the court will be much less sympathetic to you. The contact centre will keep a record of his ineradicable with the children and if he turns up or not. Whilst your children don't want to go it could actually help you in the long run, as if he does as before there will be independent witnesses rather than your word against his.
So in short yes I think you should take the children even if it ends up that he is flaky as doesn't attend.

Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 13:16:56

Ok I'll explane a little more .My children are 5 and 7 .When my daughter was 8 months old , he threw us out and were were in a woman's refuse for a year . I had him back , I fell for his lies , ( he stopped drinking and wanted to be s dad ) while I was in the woman's refuse he stopped having them . You will all day I was stupid I agree . By this time my children meaty 3 and 1 1/2. He didn't change he drank , yes my children saw this , I got completely manipulated . This carried on till he walked out on xmas day 2015.2 days later he had the kids . They came back screaming !! Our daddy's not our daddy anymore daddy's in bed with Mandy . I asked what was going on to him informing me that he had had a affair with Mandy in his first marriage , when his other children were 3 and 5. , he said they had recently hooked back up and moved in with her and her children . I told him this wasn't going to work due to the kids being put into a situation ( brand new family , and other children's comments that he needed to have them on his own first , then introduce them . He wouldn't , so after 3 weeks of him having them , the children were screaming to come home and wouldn't stay ! . So I said ok one does one doesn't so still have the children but bring my daughter home .I got a text saying I decline the offer to see the kids if both don't stay I'm not having them . So I contacted woman's aid and sure start , which were brill , I arranged dad to have the kids at the sure start center , he lasted again 3 weeks . Stopped contact . I then got a court application from dad , he wanted contact , but he wouldn't do the alcohol testing the risk assessment and kept coming to mine wanting me to take him back , the last time he was hear he assisted me and my 65 year old mum , I had witnessed and by there being previous police involve the they pressed chargers regardless if I did so or not . In Aug he got married , 2 weeks later he emailed court to say he was withdrawing and didn't want contact , due to being at the most lowest point in his life . In Sep he got a 5 year restraing order 18 months probation . In the order I put in that dad could contact via a 3 third party to keep contact with the children . He hasn't , nothing . In Jan this year I got another , I went to court on my sons birthday March , no card nothing , he said he would do the alcohol testing ( hair folical) risk assement , and change his story to I didn't want to upset the kids . I was in court again , he didn't do the school testing only a free one at the doctors , wich came back that his liver was abnormal , he changed doctors do there wasn't a upto date note. It's not about me of him , at no point in the children's life's has he been consistent , the children went through adult feelings . The courts want me to take them to see if they will see dad . I know that the right way is for dad first to show done form of commitment before face to face . Iv only ever lied to my children made exuses up do they don't feel that it was there fault ,. The courts are not seeing this from a 5 and 7 year old point ov view . How they feel and what they need first from dad . It's wrong to force them , it has the opposit affect , the courts font take the fact that a inconstant dad is damaging .

Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 13:34:30

It's difficult to type on my phone , I'm sorry for the mistakes.
But as I say this case regarding my children , is complicated.
I want the children to have contact , but not like this. I get leagle aid on domestic abuse , The dad is still classed as high risk .
I have been told that I could go to prison if I don't take them , but I'm not actually saying no contact , I'm saying commitment , action from dad first , which would give my children that trust back , and therefore give him the opportunity in the right way .
If I take them they won't do it .so why should I put them into the situation in the first place , I'm damed if I do damed if I don't .

starry0ne Wed 15-Jun-16 18:12:52

I am not legal expert.. but I think this is about giving himself enoug rope to hang himself..

My Ex was very inconsistent with contact..I reached the point where I wanted a court order so in a way once he lapsed the court order which he would it would be over..

I would speak to the solicitor about what you want and how likely it can be..

If the court orders contact at contact centre and you do not follow you are right you will make things more difficult..

Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 18:41:08

My family say the same , give him enough rope 👍 My solicitor tells me to do it or I'll loose leagle aid and could go to prison .
For 7 years he hasn't changed , it's my heart , describing my son screaming night after night , him refusing to go to school cos he's scared I'll leave him , iv never been able to have another relationship due to my son . As I don't want anyone else to leave him . I knew I couldn't help him so I got him help , day after day I reassured him , kissed and cuddled him at night while crying .It kills me inside to even think that I have to do it .
I'm proud of my kids , they are both good children , it's knowingly putting them in the emotional harms way .
And that when I think no I'm not doing it , but then think I'll go to prison and he will again think iv left him .

Lonecatwithkitten Wed 15-Jun-16 18:53:33

Your solicitor is giving you really good advice and I think you should follow it.
My Ex moved out and had OW sleeping in his bed with DD in the house at 3 days. He was arrested for drink driving and convicted with DD in the car. OW and he then verbally abused DD whilst they were drunk.
I have been through the whole contact process. If you get sent to prison for contempt of court what happens to your child? Engaging with the process is the only way forward.

Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 19:23:00

I don't think I have much choice , .
God knows what will happen / apart from that , let's say he's changed ? , he Carnt contact me for 5 years he Carnt come on my road for 5 years , same for my mum , he got a 80 fine for ringing my mum with death threats for 3 months the police trased his number back to him .
I work now on a fri and sat , childcare kills me , they gave a nanny of stead reg who in in a contact with , he wants them from and sat ,

Iv lost 4 jobs due to him leaving and not having the kids , first 11 years as a regional and supervisor st sainsburys . Debenhams , care home support worker in a demetture care home . Ibis he hotel .
He demands cams day ! And there birthdays !

DrowningInWallStickers Wed 15-Jun-16 19:41:57

Sorry but it really is incredibly hard to understand your posts. From what I can gather your children's father has a contact order and you're legally bound to take them to the contact centre so they can see him but you don't want to (because you don't believe he's reliable and needs to regain your children's trust - understandable).

Unfortunately the way he's acted towards you has no relevance on your children's right to a relationship with their father. This is the way the courts view it. Unless he has been violent towards the children or put them directly in harms way the court won't rule that you're allowed to withhold contact.

I'm not sure what you're looking for, you know that you have to take the children to the contact centre or you will end up in trouble with the law (and I have known a mother who lost residency of her children for not keeping to a contact order btw). Are you looking for us to tell you not to take them? Or trying to justify your reasons for not wanting to? It doesn't matter what the law is at this point because you've already delt with the law, the court has decided it's in the children's best interests to see their father and that's the end of it. There is no magic loophole that means what the court has decided shouldn't happen. I'm sorry if that's not what you want to hear but that's the way it is. Like pp have said, give him enough rope to hang himself.

Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 20:04:29

Yes , when I came out of the refuse and got back with him , after a couple of weeks someone on my road , called s/s saying he was shouting and hitting the children .
I at that point (controlled again ) didn't believe it .
He has told caff cass / dad hit him .
School also .
I don't know what I'm looking for myself , just talking about its helping to be far.
When the children right at the beginning stayed with dad , the girlfriends son , locked my son in the bathroom kicked him in his bits and pinned him on the stairs .
I don't agree , I understand it's not what he's done to me , it's what he's done to the kids , they actually went through the same as me but worse , emotionally , he bullied my son mentally , hit him , and constantly walked out and my son greaved for his dad . Took his confidence away . Gave him trust issues .
Take that into consideration , and what didn't dad do to them ,
So what didn't dad do to the kids .

Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 20:10:18

Over the limit with the kids in the car . Falls asleep at 10 pm , my children have told caff cass and school , daddy scares them becouse he has red eyes . My daughter was 3 when she was telling school dad drinks beer and there's cans every wear . I tryed to stop the kids from seeing it , but you just Carnt , there's a blanket ova your eyes , woman's aid de programmed my mind . I don't make exuses for him now it myself .

Fourormore Wed 15-Jun-16 20:29:13

This is why it's supervised. It won't progress from supervised until he's proven that he can properly parent the children. There will be reports written and you will see practically everything the children and your ex say and do. If something happens to your children during the sessions, you can return the matter to court.
For the time being though, the judge has made a decision, presumably with the knowledge of all that has happened in the past and you have to abide by that.

Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 21:10:51

I know , it's got to be done .
At least if it doesn't work I can tell my kids years to come , I did try everything . I feel better for talking about it , getting all ov it out of my head .

Fourormore Wed 15-Jun-16 21:12:22

I'm glad it's helped smile

starry0ne Wed 15-Jun-16 21:32:23

I think you are walking a very fine line here..Is it ok for kids to be let down time and time again no..and despite the fact you are trying to protect your children I am afraid you are in the court system ..So you have to play it their way.

You have to work with them otherwise it looks like you are blocking contact.. You have to let him let them down because if you don't you are been obstructive.

From the other issue about abandonment.. I think you need to be clear..Mummy will do what ever it takes to be with you.. ( my DS had separation anxiety as a result ) I told him I was thinking abouthim while he was out usually school..I would say I noticed it was raining and wondered if you were having wet play.. I looked at the clock and thought bet you are in PE...So he learnt out of sight isn't out of mind.

starry0ne Wed 15-Jun-16 21:46:50

I have kept all court papers and evidence I need that my Ex is unsafe so one day I can show DS if he needs to but not at this age.

I do feel satisfied I did everything to make contact work..My Ds now knows if his dad wanted contact he would have to go to court as I would want to know it was safe and the right thing for him. However He hasn't seen him in 6 years so I am happier to say things I wouldn't when I didn't know if he was going to pop up like a bad penny

Bee8205 Wed 15-Jun-16 22:36:57

I have kept everything from the beginning , the first application and this one . The law needs to change . There are a lot ov women and men , who do stop there children from seeing the other . But there also cases like mine , were dad has always stopped contact .
I believe that a parent( ADULT) who has been out of children's life's , for ova a year lets say , by there choice , needs to be addressed a different way. Every case is different , every child's needs are different .
It's all about paper work !! Caff cass see the children once . Every time I go to court it's s different set of judges .
They say they read the paper work , but they ask questions that they should already know .
They want u in and out .
If your children are 12 , that's it there choice they say no then no it is .
Mine 5 and 7 don't understand .
I will take them yes ,
Nothing is black and white there's always a In between .
I have seen both sides , dad in there life's and dad not in there life's .
Sometimes hard as it seems it is better for children not to gave the other parent in there life's courts just don't recognise that .
But yes I will take them . I'll pick up the pices if need be and I'll put my children back together , but I won't ever let him be involved with the kids again if he stops contact regardless of any court . This is the last time his last chance .

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