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Court and bringing up daughter in Muslim household.

(27 Posts)
Bev1992 Mon 14-Dec-15 18:41:09

If anyone has any knowledge about this. Me and my daughters father separated back earlier this year.he has a new gf and I have A new a.these are the circumstances..
My ex partner(father to my daughter) know/knew I was with this man,I'll call him mr a, who I've known for a very long time and happens to be Muslim. My ex had been racist towards him and has caused lots of problems and worries for I decided to make things easier to end the relationship with mr a. I know I want to be with mr a, we both want children and marriage ect (one thing my ex didn't want) but he has said he does not want our daughter being brought up in a Muslim house hold and would be willing to go to court over it.
I myself, am not Muslim and yes if we had cchildren they would be...but in regards to my daughter she would not be brought up Muslim and would have a choice when she is older. Mr a is also very excepting of her and says the same as it would be her choice when she is older and it wouldn't be forced on her.she would also not be brought up different to her brothers and sister and we would never say that they were only half siblings.
I want to be with this man but I've been so worried ect about the out come I've ended the relationship. Does anyone where he would stand on the matter if we did ever live together? He has only been registered on her birth cert for 3 months and hasn't been around much as his work ect and social life.ive always been the main person in her life but he is finiancially better of than me. What writes would he have to say he doesn't want her to live me with me as my partner is Muslim and we would have Muslim children? Any info would be great as I have no idea what todo for the best as I would never risk potentially loosing my daughter. Thanks

Bev1992 Mon 14-Dec-15 18:43:48

Also my daughters father is very abusive mentally and controlling, he pays very little for her considering what he earns and often sends me nasty texts, and does not always let me speak to her when she is with him.

Fyaral Mon 14-Dec-15 18:54:03

He has no say. No court will grant him residency over religion. How often does he see her?

BlissfullyUnknown Mon 14-Dec-15 18:54:11

He doesn't have any say who you choose to have as a partner but personally I wouldn't want my child being brought up Muslim on a part time or full time basis.

The legalities of it all I'm not sure though. You might be better posting in legal.

Also legally he doesn't have to allow telephone contact on his contact days. The same as legally you aren't obliged to allow it either, unless there is a court order stating otherwise.

You have said that your daughter wouldn't be brought up Muslim but you have also said siblings would and you wouldn't bring them up differently so which is it?

Everything else you've said about him aside. I can't disagree with his stance that he doesn't want his child being brought up as a Muslim.

Viviennemary Mon 14-Dec-15 18:57:45

I wouldn't want my children to be brought up as a Muslim. But a lot of Muslims wouldn't want their children to be brought up as Christians. You're not a Muslim yourself so why should your household be a Muslim household. I agree with your Ex.

originalmavis Mon 14-Dec-15 19:01:04

Would you convert? Would any children you have be circumcised, brought up as Muslim, wear traditional outfits/scarves...?

Bev1992 Mon 14-Dec-15 19:06:44

It wouldn't be a Muslim household, that is the way he has taken it. Mr a, he is a Muslim but does not pray ect he has been brought up as Muslim, he has English mum and Arab father. My ex is seeing it at it would be a Muslim regards to they would not be treated different there would be nothing to make them different ..though my ex partner is only thinking of the fact that he himself is Muslim. Mr a is not heavy religious though I cannot denay he is Muslim of course. Her farther sees her 3 days a week..and flexible to when he is working ect . He sees her plenty..takes her on holidays four five times a year ect. She is with me full time of course.. And as I say Muslim household this is just my daughters father views going of the fact of his name and not anything else.

Bev1992 Mon 14-Dec-15 19:07:41

I probably would not convert as I do know a lot and I don't agree 100% with something todo with the my children would not be circumcised and not wear headscarves in this country

originalmavis Mon 14-Dec-15 19:09:59

What about his family? I'm asking they wouldn't give you the hardline if his mum isn't Muslim.

Bev1992 Mon 14-Dec-15 19:13:38

Any children we had would be Muslim as they would be mr a children and have Arabic regards to being brought up Muslim I myself would not be able to teach about the religion ect..

Bev1992 Mon 14-Dec-15 19:15:47

His family is excepting of myself and my daughter. they don't live in this county but his brothers have also married British women and they now have children..he little boy himself is not circumcised ect.they do teach about Islam but again nothing heavy.

Bev1992 Mon 14-Dec-15 19:18:55

In regards to the court thing, would u say he had any rights ect? As this is the worrying for me as I'd never want to risk loosing her

BlissfullyUnknown Mon 14-Dec-15 19:25:14

He has parental responsibility - exactly the same as you.

bloodyteenagers Mon 14-Dec-15 19:30:50

No they wouldn't be automatically Muslim. It's a religion not a race.
My children have Arabic names, a parent that is cofe and one Muslim. This doesn't make them Muslim.
Yes they are aware of Islam, just in the same way they are aware of all religions so that they can decide for themselves.

As for custody. No one can say. No because of a religion but because we don't know you. We don't know what is in the best interests for your child. Only legal professionals who are aware of all the info can tell you.

Bev1992 Mon 14-Dec-15 19:40:10

Yes I agree with u. I do not Evan want to take the risk of him having custody.I think I would have to speak to a solicitor in regards to what rights he would have over it. Thank you all for your posts

bloodyteenagers Mon 14-Dec-15 19:45:36

He has the same rights as you, so this means at any time for any reason he can apply. The child also has their own rights.

SheHasAWildHeart Wed 16-Dec-15 11:39:35

but in regards to my daughter she would not be brought up Muslim
So you're both in agreement, what's his problem then?

TessDurbeyfield Wed 16-Dec-15 12:19:08

Generally speaking the courts won't interfere in children's religious upbringing but would let both parents give the children the religious upbringing that they see fit. The would only interfere if the religious upbringing was harming the child's welfare or the parents' choices were incompatible (e.g. one wants a strict religious school and the other doesn't) and the court was asked to make that choice in the child's interests. If one parent became extremely religious and it started to significantly affect the child's relationship with the other parent that might also harm the child and so the court might intervene e.g. if the child was saying 'mummy says you are evil and going to hell because you don't believe X so I don't want to see you anymore'.

It sounds here as though none of that applies and actually that the two of you would be giving her the same (non) religious upbringing so it doesn't sound as if there is any reason for concern. They certainly wouldn't change the child's arrangements simply because one of you had married a person of a different religion - that would be deeply problematic in terms of discrimination law.

So I can't see anything in the fact that you want to marry a Muslim man that would give him any good argument to change things. Of course, we don't know your child and the people involved so no-one can give you a definite answer but generally speaking the law lets parents get on with it.

TessDurbeyfield Wed 16-Dec-15 12:27:15

I have to say though that i don't understand what you mean by saying that any future children would be Muslim. Sure I can see that in Islamic law they might be seen as Muslim but that's not the law of this country and you don't have to follow that. It sounds as if they would be brought up by two largely non-religious people and would have 3 non-Muslim grandparents, so very little religious input in normal life plus you say they wouldn't be circumcised or wear any particular religious dress. Surely they can just be taught a bit about that side of their father's heritage and then decide later rather than being classed as 'Muslim children' whatever that means?

I realise that this is all very speculative as they don't exist yet and might never exist but it would be a good idea to make sure that you are both in agreement about what it means for 'any future children to be Muslim' before you get to that stage. Disagreements about that kind of thing can be very problematic further down the line.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bev1992 Wed 16-Dec-15 19:53:37

Tessderbeyfield, yes you are right they would have very little religious input. Mr a feels the same also. I know we have equal right ect... In regards to the post, this is the view from my daughters farther.. The actuall fact is neither of us live our lives by the religion but would teach our children about it only. Like tess said they would have very little input and yes they would be able to make that decision later on in life. I know I say Muslim children but I meant only cos mr a is Muslim. How would u say you empathise with my daughters farther? He is of no religion himself . But what would you disagree with in regards to myself marrying mr a and him being a part of my daughters life? As this is what he has a problem with. And it's all todo with race and religion

enderwoman Wed 16-Dec-15 22:10:11

Islam can be very sexist so I completely understand why your ex is extremely nervous about his daughter living in a Muslim household. He may be fearing that she will end up wearing a headscarf and inferior to future sons that you may have.
Your ex does not know your partner so it will take time for him to know how Islam affects his (and by extension yours and your daughter's) home life.
(By the way I'm not suggesting Islam is the only religion with problems - you can be racist/sexist/homophobic etc and any religion or no religion at all)

AliceInUnderpants Wed 16-Dec-15 22:26:41

You're jumping the gun a bit, aren't you? Calm down.

SheHasAWildHeart Thu 17-Dec-15 07:09:17

enderwoman did you read this but "Also my daughters father is very abusive mentally and controlling," or the fact that she WON'T be bringing her daughter up as a Muslim. Or that her current partner isn't even particularly religious

dotdotdotmustdash Sat 06-Feb-16 21:02:11

My children are exactly what your children would be with Mr A, they have one muslim Grandfather. My DH was brought up with in a muslim household (albeit without any great conviction by his British Mum). I am not religious at all. Our children have been brought up in no religion, and their surname is double-barrelled to reflect that there is an asian influence.

My children have 3 Grandparent who were brought up in Christian households, and one who is muslim. They are most definitely not muslim, or anything else unless they decide otherwise.

If you can reassure your ex of this, then he has nothing to be concerned about.

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