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Being the father, birth certificates and mother and baby units

(83 Posts)
Samreed Tue 04-Mar-14 22:24:58

Hi. Not sure if this is the right place but I'm at a bit of loss.

My ex and I had a beautiful baby late last year. Just before the birth she ended our relationship. Obviously reasons for this are important but since we're both biased and we both look at the situation differently all you would get is my version, and that wouldn't really help. Regardless, the reasons, in my opinion, were petty and easily overcome with better communication and understanding on both sides. And sometimes we're all guilty of being bad at that.

Anyway, I was there just after the birth (she had moved to her mothers house some months before - a good 6 hour drive) and I was there for the first week and have gone back every month since then, as often as time, etc, allows.

I have been as involved as I can be, I love this little baby as much as I can, I have been supporting her financially, and I want to be a part of her life. I have another child, from a previous marriage, and have been a loving caring father to them for the last 8 years. So I'm not new to this.

My ex was diagnosed with PND very soon after the birth. Looking back on the whole pregnancy I can understand this, her behaviour was often erratic and she was very nervous (she's an older mum at 41, with a history of depression). Sadly PND was almost expected.

Recently her PND has been getting worse and worse, despite increased meds, etc. I almost speak to her mum daily now to keep up to date on her status and of course my baby's well being. Her doctors have now advised that she and the baby be taken into care at a mother and baby unit. Having looked into this, and considering it a last resort, both her mum and I agree this is best for both her and baby.

But here's the thing. She registered our baby's birth and didn't name me as the father on the birth certificate. I still don't understand why. There was no violence in the relationship, no abuse of any kind, and I was genuinely excited and keen on welcoming this little life into the world. But with the PND I haven't ever broached this, something that bothers me a great deal, for fear of making things worse.

My concerns now are obvious. When she's admitted I have no legal responsibility over the child, I won't be able to make any decisions about her care, and if heaven forbid the worst should ever happen I'd have to go through the courts to get my child back from the state.

Am I right in thinking this? What can I do? I want my ex to get better. I have no intention of taking the baby away from her, but I do want to recognised legally as the father, in case of emergency. And for the future too, I want this child to know who their father is, legally.

I have broached this with my ex's mother who brushed me off with 'don't worry it won't come to that and we'll fill in all the forms listing you as the dad' but it doesn't feel like it's enough.

Help! What do I do??

Monetbyhimself Thu 06-Mar-14 21:25:48

Very clear and informative information Fiideline. You are clearly an expert in this field. Or maybe not.

Oh 3cooked will you EVER tire of trawling this board looking to set the wimmin straight ? We know you're all about da menz. It's tiresome, it's usually innapropriate and in yet another thread it's dangerous. But hey, who cares if a vulnerable woman is further distressed and traumatised as long as the MRAs get to bang their drum.

3xcookedchips Thu 06-Mar-14 21:00:43

Don't worry about Monet, she's an angry and needs a target, it's not personal.

I think the OP has enough food for thought.

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 21:00:19

Absolutely Monet. Because every time one of us fills in the 'NOK' space on a hospital admission form, we aware it is information requested so that medical doctors can make instant and binding family law judgements if necessary hmm That's why I mentioned the concept of NOK, oh yes.

Think OP's thread has been derailed enough now, don't you?

Monetbyhimself Thu 06-Mar-14 20:51:17

Not going to share your extensive knowledge and experience of mother and baby units then Fid? Still waiting on your in depth analysis on the role of a 'NOK' and their role on legal/medical decision making.

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 20:23:02

Woah. I had posted suggesting pretty moderate course. Monet turned up all beetroot coloured and then turned on me when I disagreed with her.

Anonymai Thu 06-Mar-14 20:21:02

I know nothing is automatic. I think I just said that when I explained they would look at existing family as well etc confused. The comments about hounding are based on conversation further up thread where people were suggesting courts and letters rather than a softer approach. This thread is going a bit doolally now. It's like people don't have a basic level of comprehension.

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 20:16:29

*For all we know....

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 20:16:10

Nothing would be automatic and we don't know he'd have to hound if he even decided to raise the issue. Full all we know the mother was taken aback that she couldn't unilaterally name dad on the BC and has discussed with her mother her intent to recify it later.

Besides, it would be bloody odd to discover his child has been admitted to a medical facility with its mother and NOT mention to the management that he is the baby's father. What's he supposed to do shrug and go about his day?

I think I was advocating a pretty gentle approach too.

Anonymai Thu 06-Mar-14 20:10:36

I'm making the point that PR isn't going to make him magically have any automatic rights to have the baby should the worst happen as he put so nicely in his OP. He could still have a fight in court exactly the same as the fight he would have without PR. So why potentially make this woman's illness worse by hounding her about PR now if it will have no benefit for the thing he is worried about? I'm obviously not saying he shouldn't consider his options otherwise I wouldn't have tried to offer advice on his options. I'm just saying that the gentle approach might be better in this scenario.

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 20:08:03

Bought in to hysteria? Hardly.

I was suggesting calm considered action to ensure involvement of both parents with sounding out the baby's grandmother as first step.

Only one hysteric on this thread.

Monetbyhimself Thu 06-Mar-14 20:05:31

There you go Fideline. You've bought into the hysteria about the baby being taken away from it's mum. Surprise me. Tell me what you don't know about the ethos and philosophy of mother and baby units.

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 20:04:49

MRA bandwagon. Ludicrous thing to say.

He is the father as far as we know. Not some random reverse-cuckoo.

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 20:03:42

Anon It would likely need settling in court, in any case. So why would he not anticipate that eventuality now and consider his options for obtaining PR?

We don't know that she deliberately excluded him from the registration with intent to prevent him obtaining PR. A lot is being assumed.

Monetbyhimself Thu 06-Mar-14 20:02:48

No Fideline . I want people to stop bandying about terms which suggest that hey actually KNOW whatvthey're talking about. You and many others on this thread cleatly have NO clue about PND but that doesn't stop you from jumping on the MRA bandwagon.

OP I wish you thr best. I hope that your Ex makes a full recovery in time and that with the support of your friends and family you can build a really successful co parenting relationship.

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 20:01:19

We know that Doas that's the point, he would be in stronger position with it.

Doasbedoneby Thu 06-Mar-14 19:59:53

He's not on the birth certificate, he doesn't have PR.

At the moment he's no one.

Anonymai Thu 06-Mar-14 19:59:03

Birth parent with PR wouldn't necessarily be in pole position for temporary residency. They'd look at the child's life, bonds with people and family close by too. If the baby sees grandma every day and only sees dad once a month or so, they'd look at grandma having baby. Especially to continue contact between baby and mum.

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 19:58:06

ex MIL

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 19:57:07

I'm no FFJ campaigner but if an apparently competent mother was told to back off and assume her MIL will be in line to take day to day care and control of HER children, because mother's partner (the father) was extremely ill, all bloody hell would break loose.

Monetbyhimself Thu 06-Mar-14 19:54:21

Lol at 3cooked. Your batman suit is due to be picked up from the dry cleaners. Din't you have a tall building to climb ?

3xcookedchips Thu 06-Mar-14 19:52:41

Monet does have a tendency to get aggressive when one doesn't fit in with her world view.

I think she enjoys the conflict as reflected on a thread where she was the OP.

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 19:52:19

You just want to argue. I didn't claim NOK had a legal meaning. It's a widely understood shorthand. Birth parent with PR would be in pole position for temp residency should mum and dc be temporarily parted. You know that.

Stop hijacking the thread of OP who is experiencing such challenging circs.

fideline Thu 06-Mar-14 19:49:18

I didn't contradict anyone except cafe who as a former solicitor had clearly misread the OP to suggest a PRA was necessary to add natural dad to a birth cert (with agreement from mum).

We still don't know that the mother's intent was to exclude. it may have been circumstance or her illness that made her go alone for ease. She might not have realised dad needed to attend until registrar explained. She may have been close to the deadline and had great difficulty organising/motivating herself to get there. She could be eager to help him obtain PR in the current circs. We don't actually know she is experiencing psychosis.

I find these threads don't work too well when one gobby person rocks up and starts shouting everyone down.

Far better that the OP gets to choose from the array of opinion offered.

Monetbyhimself Thu 06-Mar-14 19:44:04

No dear. What DO you mean by NOK ? What exactly IS a NOK ? What legal standing does it have ? Please do enlighten us ?

Monetbyhimself Thu 06-Mar-14 19:41:40

The first response to the OP told him to go to court. The second told him to start sending solicitors letters. Can you highlight the posts where you contradicted that advice ?

'Awaits pat on the head from 3cookedchipsonshoulder to go with patronising calm down dear approach' hmm

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