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Contact and PR

(10 Posts)
avenueone Fri 05-Oct-12 17:22:41

I didn't want to crash the other thread about a contact order but there are some very good points made on it and it raised a question for me.
What happens if someone has contact but not PR in terms of a medical emergency? esp. in an extreme case when the child has never seen the NRP ever for years so PR is not suitable in the immediate future.
I know in theses extreme cases the contact would have to start slow and may start supervised but surely when it starts unsupervised PR may still not be viable straight away and the issue of medical emergencies (and maybe others I have thought about) would arise.. taking the child abroad.
And sorry just one more question it prompted.
If this extreme case was the case would the RP need a resident order from that point or would they just have sole PR so it was not necessary.

getmorenappies Fri 05-Oct-12 17:29:21

That doesn't make much sense I'm afraid.

If you don't have PR you don't have a say about any medical, school or travel issues regarding the child even if you do have contact.

If there is a medical emergency you just do what you'd do with anyone having a medical emergency call 999

STIDW Fri 05-Oct-12 19:20:43

Responsibilities can be delegated to others who don't have PR e.g. a grandparent or school may take a child abroad on holiday or parent's new partner or childminder may give consent to urgent medical treatment. So a contact parent without PR has delegated responsibility.

A residence order determines where a child lives and is usually only awarded in favour of one parent when for one reason or another it's deemed inappropriate for a child to live with the other parent or to prevent the other parent from abusing their PR.

The differences of having a residence order in your favour is in theory you may take the child abroad for up to one month without needing consent, the other parent loses the right to have the child living with them and a guardian can be appointed so that if the person with a residence order in their favour dies the guardian will automatically have joint PR with the others who have PR for a child.

In practice the parent with a residence order may well need to negotiate and agree holidays abroad because ordered contact arrangements need to change. If there is a dispute after the resident parent dies even someone without PR may be granted permission to apply for contact or residence. The courts would make decisions based on the reality of the situation and the best interests of the child's welfare rather than whats on a bit of paper.

Conditions can be attached to residence or contact orders so for example it might say that both parents are to hand over passports in good time, inform each other of travel arrangements, where their children are staying overnight or who is to drop off and collect children.

Hope that helps.

avenueone Sat 06-Oct-12 01:59:11

that is my point getmorenappies - if you don't have PR and an accident happens (I know you ring 999) but how does that parent having contact without PR sign for a medical emergency? i.e. they are with the child he or she is in hospital but they cant sign for treatment? isnt that a risk for the child?

STIDW - Thanks for all that info, I think what I ment what if the NRP suddenly has contact - after years of absence and still has no PR, does the RP then have to apply for residency?

getmorenappies Sat 06-Oct-12 08:40:14

You don't 'have to' apply for RP status but it may be a good idea. I think it's a fairly straight forward procedure but costs a few hundred quid ( I think ! ).

The nrp can also apply for PR and get a DNA test done if needed to proove paternity.

STIDW Sat 06-Oct-12 11:26:08

Why do you think you need a residence order? As I said above in most cases a residence order isn't going to make much difference and it isn't necessary. A mother automatically has PR and it is PR which gives you responsibility and rights. Residence orders determine where children live. The de facto arrangement is the child lives with you and that is more important than a piece of paper.

These days sole residence isn't granted as often as it was a few years ago and the outcome of a fair number of residence applications is shared residence. In fact the Government has published draft legislation that will do away with residence and contact orders and replace them instead with Child Arrangement Orders.

NotaDisneyMum Sat 06-Oct-12 13:53:30

avenue Regardless of who has PR, and whose care the DC is in - presumably if a DC is rushed to hospital in an emergency both parents would get there as soon as possible?
Life saving treatment can be given in the absence of PR, so any non-life saving decisions can be made by the parent with PR when they arrive.

avenueone Sat 06-Oct-12 20:29:37

I totally agree with STIDW but wanted to clarify if you needed to have one as part of the process.
Notadisney - may not be possible if the RP lives a good distance away for the NRP to get there in time but as you say life saving treatment would be given so I guess it would be ok. NRP may not tell the RP about the situation.
The NRP can only apply for PR if they have had an attachment with the child for a while, it is before that point I was concerned about.
Thanks for your replies it has helped.

cestlavielife Sat 06-Oct-12 23:06:08

Parent could sign a form for child to take with like the school forms about emergency treatment.
It may be possible to give consent by phone in certain situations.
In the event life saving treatment is required you won't be taking consent forms at the point of life saving eg accident. Presumably they would then stabilise child before getting consent for next steps .

If you giving the parent with no pr contact then you probably not going to go off somewhere really far away and out of contact ?

avenueone Sat 06-Oct-12 23:26:39

I wouldn't go far away no but may not be able to prevent the NRP doing so, and they can't contact me direct due to DV.
Good idea about the form.
It's nothing imminent but as it is so complex I thought it was better to get advice from people who seem to know a lot which is great and I do appreciate it.

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