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Families need fathers all over the news today

(470 Posts)
Sheila Fri 03-Feb-12 14:20:34

Bloody Louis de Bernieres also on R4 sounding off about his rights. It all seems so remote - I just wish XP was interested enough to demand contact with DS - usullay it's me naggaing him becuase he sees so little of his son. sad

duchesse Fri 03-Feb-12 16:28:15

The thing is, I entirely agree with the principle behind Families need Fathers. Parenting is tough and few people would want to do it alone if they could have a second pair of capable hands to share the load.

The fathers that families need are good fathers who are able to behave like adults, accept that parenting children is a major undertaking that will impact on their life, be willing to sacrifice themselves emotionally to a certain extent, be willing to stick their neck out to pass on their decent values to their offspring, who do not feel that the children are somehow not their problem but their partner's in terms of day to day minutiae, who know their children's friends' names, their children's shoes sizes, their likes and dislikes, when their next dental appointment falls due, etc...

There is so much more to being a father than merely making a woman pregnant.

What I fail to see is how having spokesmen whining all over the media, interrupting other speakers and all but telling them they are stupid can in any way advance their cause. It just makes all the fathers involved in the organisation appear tarred with the same brush for electing such a poor spokesperson.

StewieGriffinsMom Fri 03-Feb-12 16:28:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AThingInYourLife Fri 03-Feb-12 16:30:15

You have given away that you consider child maintenance to be for mothers, not for children.

duchesse Fri 03-Feb-12 16:32:23

MrGin- no you didn't say it but you did imply it.

MrGin Fri 03-Feb-12 16:38:48

When Families need Fathers start campaigning actively on actively on behalf of the 3/5s of resident parents who receive NO child maintenance

StewieGM, it was your implication I was just extrapolating. So please stop making assumptions about what or who I think CM is for. My XP actually told me she thought CM was for her as she looks after dd. I don't agree to be honest.

If men want rights, then they need to start taking some responsibility for themselves

And you assume that no men do ?!

AThingInYourLife Fri 03-Feb-12 16:42:18

Well said, duchesse

MrGin Fri 03-Feb-12 16:42:52

duchesse why did you put 'Mr' in speech marks ?

BasilRathbone Fri 03-Feb-12 16:59:32

Well, the majority of NRP's do not take financial responsibility for their children.

More than half do not pay a penny in maintenance.

Families don't need fathers like that actually. They need fathers who understand that financially supporting your children, is an absolute basic requirement of parenting and that if you don't do that, you're a really shit parent.

I simply don't understand why this right is needed. Legally, children already have the right to have a relationship with both their parents - contact is only not granted in the most extreme cases of previous abuse, and in many cases, even violent abuse of the mother (which is a form of emotional abuse of the child) or the child, does not prevent courts from ordering sole contact. This right is unnecessary. If they are going to introduce rights for absent parents, then they need to introduce responsibilities as well: fathers must turn up on time, on the correct day, for contact, and bring the children back at the correct time. And they must also pay maintenance - it's shameful that the majority don't. Deeply shameful.

duchesse Fri 03-Feb-12 16:59:54

Respect is earned, MrGin. It doesn't come free with a willy. That's why.

RabidEchidna Fri 03-Feb-12 17:01:11

There are plenty of shithead fathers out there who do not step up to the play and I really think they need a public flogging, however there are thousands of decent fathers out there who pay a for their children and would love to be in their lives more, but are obstructed by Exs who use the child/children as pawns in their own bitter twisted games of revenge.

A child has a right to be with both parents even if those parents are no longer a couple.

MrGin Fri 03-Feb-12 17:01:58

It's to define my gender on MN "duchesse" not to garner any respect.

Mr is actually quite a common term you know.

MrGin Fri 03-Feb-12 17:12:22

Amazing that you think I I believe CM to be for the mother. You are utterly wrong in your assumptions.

For the record, CSA calculation for me is £375. I put £600 into my XP's account per month for my dd ( despite XP claiming it's for her ) . On top of that I pay for half of most extras. I take every opportunity to spend time with my dd despite resistance from my XP. I cook nice meals for her when she stays, have a lovely bedroom for her and spend pretty much all my spare money on my dd. I can name all her friends, tell you her weight, height and favourite song etc etc etc.

I co-ordinate all my holidays to suit my XP's schedules. I even, shock horror, offered to do any chores for my XP recently as she's having a personal crisis.

If you want to keep bashing me because I'm a man go for it, but I'm not the bad guy here.

duchesse Fri 03-Feb-12 17:12:33

Let us use the example of my sister's BastardEx as a case in point. Granted, he is an extreme version, but only that- just a variation on a spectrum of bastardy.

Bex abuses my sister. She stays. Bex deconstructs my sister's self esteem and personality. She stays. Bex tells my sister she is worthless. She stays. Bex threatens and intimidates my sister. She stays. Bex hits my sister and tries to strangle her. She stays. She stays because having grown up with an absent father, she strongly believes that families need fathers.

Then Bex picks up their 3yo slaps him, and throws him across a tent, before taking my sister's car, leaving her in the middle of France and pissing off. My sister at last realises she has to go.

She goes back to collect her and the children's stuff. He basically does not allow her to take anything, begs her to come back. She leaves.

Fast forward through months of abusive stalking, kidnapping of their son (there is also a daughter who is never the focus of her father's attentions), more threats, damage to her car, damage to her house, damage to her and her phone when she went back to their house for a birthday party for their son, blackmail, abusive phone calls, texts, yadda yadda yadda.

Past that, to the eventual family court hearing where tbh my sister would have been utterly in her rights to tell him to fuck right off and ask for supervised contact only, where custody arrangements are arranged and he agrees them, past that again to now, 7 years on, when Bex will never ever, ever keep to an access weekend because the court was "on her side", still turns up to "see the kids" at 10pm on a school night, still tries to refuse to take his daughter out as much as he can get away with, and still he uses the children as pawns, saying he'll come and then not turning up.

After all this, my sister still believes that her children should have contact. She wants them to make their own opinion. She still believes that families need father, even a cunt like this. She has to manage her children psychologically to an unimaginable degree, taking everything on herself and trying to make sure they are unharmed by it. All the while working full-time (it goes without saying that Bex pays not a penny in maintenance) to pay the new mortgage she had to get when he stole all her savings, pay the bills and put food on the table.

And still he whines that everything is done on her terms. So forgive if I issue a hard little derisive snort of laughter when I hear blokes whinging on the radio about how hard done by they are.

Truckulentagain Fri 03-Feb-12 17:15:02

I must admit I don't pay any child support to my ex, she doesn't pay any to me.

So we'd be a tick on the doesn't receive any maintenance statistic.

duchesse Fri 03-Feb-12 17:15:43

Have you shared the children out Truckulent?

MrGin Fri 03-Feb-12 17:18:09

just a variation on a spectrum of bastardy.

very telling. all men are bastards. all men are potential rapists. hate-men.

You may not like to acknowledge it, but some men are actually decent humans and just because you think we're all bastards doesn't mean some men aren't entitled to speak about issues they feel strongly about.

duchesse Fri 03-Feb-12 17:21:51

I'm married to a complete non-bastard wonderful man, so I do happen to know that. What I meant was that among bastard men, my BastardExBIL just about takes the biscuit. Nowhere did I say that all men were bastards.

MrGin Fri 03-Feb-12 17:27:09

ok, clearly we've both misunderstood each other.

I honestly don't think CM is for the mother. You don't think all men are bastards.

as you were

Truckulentagain Fri 03-Feb-12 17:28:35

We do shared-care, we both see each other as equal parents.

We worked out the costs and pay 50-50. And the children can speak and see either parent when they want,and where they sleep has changed and changes as they get older, it's very flexible.

RabidEchidna Fri 03-Feb-12 17:29:00

MrGin you sound like a very good parent, but as you have testis you will get ripped to bits here.

My father died when I was 12 (he was never going to get a father of the year award anyway he and my mum were not together)

Yes some men are bastards, but some women are not great either, and staying with an abusive man because children need a dad is damaging to the children more so then if the family breaks uo

planetpotty Fri 03-Feb-12 17:29:10

There is a lot of ignorance and misunderstanding in this thread.

I've been to families need fathers meetings and they are absolutely nothing like described here.

CSA deals with maintenance it's not FNFs battle they have enough to keep them busy believe me!

There are feckless fathers and wonderful fathers in the same way as there are wonderful mothers and contact blocking/denying mothers. No one "side" is right or wrong.

I'm will always be grateful for FNFs help which mean in an hours time DSD will walk through the door all smiles and cuddles for her brother and sister (half officially). This WOULD NOT have happened without their support and free advice for my DH.

Thank you FNF!!!

duchesse Fri 03-Feb-12 17:29:21

Sounds perfect, Truckulent, and very healthy for the children!

MrGin Fri 03-Feb-12 17:31:42

but as you have testis you will get ripped to bits here.

Don't I know it. grin

duchesse Fri 03-Feb-12 17:35:57

In fairness you did say this: Then they'd be called ' Mothers Need CM' StewieGM. Which rather led me to infer that you believed that all RPs were mothers (not true) and that Mothers got the child maintenance, whereas it is in fact paid to the RP for the benefit of the children.

AThingInYourLife Fri 03-Feb-12 17:39:29

Sounds ideal, Truckulent.

Do you think the new law will help more families reach decent agreements?

There are certainly many, including fathers, that think it will hinder that process.

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