ex has just proved how fucking low he is - and on fathers day of all days...

[juicychops]

background - he hasn't seen ds for 5 years (ds is now 6) it was his choice, he decided he didn't want anything to do with ds ever again. ds was just turned 1 so has no memory of his dad.

ds has asked questions in the past so ive tried to answer them as best and basic as i can so he understands. Ive told ds he does have a dad but he doesn't see him because his dad isn't a nice person and he decided when he was a baby that he didn't want a child anymore and that he only needs a mummy anyway.

ex has walked past us in the street numerous times over the last 5 years completely ignoring us and ds has obviously never recognised him. ex now has another son from another relationship who he does see (this son is 3). ex now has another one on the way with ANOTHER girlfriend.


so, ds stayed with his great aunt last night who he stays with one night most weekends and they have a fantastic relationship. she's like his nan. She took ds to the park this morning. ds was waiting at the bottom of a ladder for some girls at the top to move and a little boy came over to ds and was also waiting to go up the ladder. the little boy was ex's 3 year old son who ds doesn't know because ive never told him he has a brother.
this little boy called over to his dad (ex) 'there's another boy waiting' (or something like that), and ex shouted back ' thats your brother (then said ds's name).

ds totally confused doesn't know who this man is or who the child is. ds's aunt was fuming but didn't say anything as ds was there. they quickly left


Im so so so so angry. He has no NO fucking right to even say ds's name let alone say life changing things like that to him. How fucking dare he. if i knew where he lived i would go round there and ask him what the hell he wsa playing at

i don't know what to do. ds told me when he got in that a little boy said he was his brother and i said we'll have a chat about it, but i haven't yet. i don't know what to do or say. i know this is likely to happen more now especially as this other boy now knows what ds looks like, and now ex has done it once he's prob going to do it again. But how do i explain to ds who's only 6 that his dad didn't want him but has other children that he does see, and these are his siblings who he also can't see?

i was planning on waiting until he was a little bit older when he was at an age better to understand without making him feel rejected by the prick that is his 'dad'.

do you think i should sit him down and tell him everything? i just feel like it will be opening a can of worms that ds isn't old enough to understand properly yet.

i hate him for what he's done today and for everything else he's done to ds by disowning him, and all the pain he's gunna cause him when ds is older and finds out more about him. i hope this has made his fathers day. obviously had no thought for ds as he KNOWS ds doesn't know anything about his half brother so he's done this purely to be a fuck and to mess with ds's head. Or maybe he thought ds would be old enough to think 'you must be my dad then' and run into his arms. fucking bastard i hate him

i don't know what to do for the best for ds. Its always gunna be there, i just don't want to tell him things that he's not gunna fully understand cos he will then ask more questions about more things and it will be too much

[juicychops]

sorry its long, needed to get it all out

[CarGirl]

I really have no idea how to do with that .

I wonder if their are any books about "anyone can be a father but only someone special is a Dad" that focus's on relationships rather than labels.

How awful for you and your ds

[PinkCarBlueCar]

oh, boy. That's really shit of your ex, but given the number of kids he already has to different women, it's hardly surprising that he's a thoughtless feckless twunt. I doubt he did it to mess with either of his DS's heads, he probably did it because he's completely thoughtless.

You're going to have to tell him that he has half-siblings. It's not his fault, nor is it his siblings fault they are related.

I've gotta say, telling him that his Dad "isn't a nice person" wasn't the wisest of moves - he is half his Dad, and he could grow up to think that part of him is "not nice". Please re-think what you're telling him about his Dad.

I feel bad that I don't have any suggestions for you as to what you could say, but I'm sure someone more articulate than me will suggest something soon.

[Amaretti]

It isn't going to get easier as he gets older, though. There is no age when it will be easy to do, so that line o f argument will just end up with you putting it off indefinitely. You're going to have to do the best you can with it now.

He probably won't ask as any questions as you think he will. It will certainly be far worse for you than fir him. Bite the bullet and get it done. Poor you.

[Jaspants]

Sorry no advice, but what an arse your ex is. I am so so angry on your and your DS behalf.

[juicychops]

thanks everyone for your advice. I am going to spend the rest of the day having a think how best to approach it and them maybe this evening or tomorrow sit him down and have a talk about it. Im dreading it

Pinkcar, the reason i told ds he's not a nice person was because he's not and i just cant tell him he was a nice person when he's decided he doesn't want to know him for his own selfish reasons. he was an awful person - an awful abusive partner and an awful dad - not physically abusive towards ds but didn't treat him anywhere near acceptable. that is why i told ds he's not a very nice person. I know some people wont agree, but i feel by telling ds he's not a nice person, ds now has a reason why his dad's basically dumped him rather than ds thinking he was a good dad and it was ds's own fault that he's gone.

[PinkCarBlueCar]

Juicy - I hear what you're saying (my ex was abusive to me, and is far short on what most would consider a decent parent), but I still think that will leave him thinking that there's something wrong with him (your DS), as opposed to something wrong with his Dad. Especially now he knows his Dad has other kid(s) who he does see and spend time with.

Someone mentioned books - it's not necessarily quite the right thing for your circumstances, but I read The Paperbag Princess to my DD. It's a way of showing / educating that we (and they) shouldn't and needn't put up with abusive twunts.

I'm definitely not saying you need to hide the truth, I'm just suggesting that it's in both your interests to be careful how you portray his Dad. If I knew how you could do that in your case, I'd gladly say. Perhaps you could tell DS that his Dad wasn't very good at being a partner to you or Dad to him, and that's why he left? And that even though he's being a Dad to someone else now, you and DS don't need him as you're doing a great job by yourselves?

I wish I could give you better constructive suggestions for what to say, and I fully accept why you've told him what you have, and that you're doing your best with a difficult situation.

[AmberLeaf]

I agree with pinkcar that its not a good idea to talk about your ex like that to your DS.

Dont underestimate the importance of dads [even bad ones] to children.

[mrscolour]

I think only you can judge what to do here. Either you gloss over it and say the boy must have made a mistake or you sit him down and tell him the whole story.

I suppose you need to think about his maturity and how he might deal with this. Does he ask much about his dad? Does he seem bothered that he doesn't see him? Would he have liked siblings?

If you tell him the truth then you are exposing him to the fact his dad has another son who he does see. If you don't tell him now and tell him when he's older then might he remember this incident and wonder why you didn't tell him then.

This is a really hard one. Wish I could give you an answer either way.

As to saying that his dad's not a nice person I don't think this is a real issue in your situation as he doesn't see his dad and he needs to know it's his dad's problem not his. If he still saw his dad then it would be a bad thing to say but really you are just telling him the truth.

Good luck

[Slambang]

Poor you. Poor ds. Poor other half bro

I think you have dealt with it fantastically so far. I think if his dad was abusive you have to be honest to ds in as 5 yr old appropriate way as possible. Just go with the simple facts...

Your dad was not good at being a dad and he wasn't nice to mummy. He made us sad so I decided we would be happier without him.
He didn't want to be a real dad to you because he doesn't really know how to be a good dad. Some grownups aren't able to be kind to their children. He doesn't know how lovely and amazing you are because he has never really got to know you.
After that time he made another baby with a different mummy. I don't think he lives with that little boy. Because that boy has the same dad as you he is a kind of brother but sadly we can't get to know that brother because I don't know his mummy.
Your dad sometimes sees that little boy but I guess he is not a very kind dad to that boy either because he is not able to be nice.

If ds does ask why his dad sees his brother but not him (my guess is he wont at this stage) I'd give the honest answer that you don't know why and his dad must be very stupid to miss out on such a lovely fantastic person.

Hope it goes OK.

[TheProvincialLady]

I know your son is only young but unfortunately this situation proves that you cannot keep things hidden and that you cannot protect your children from unpleasant truths that affect them so strongly. If you pretend that the boy was wrong, or don't mention the other new sibling, you are only storing up trust issues for the future. No one wants to be sat down and told that they have other close relations they can't know, but it is better to find out now at an age appropriate level and keep building on that, than to wait until he is 'old enough' to know and dump the lot on him at a difficult age. I understand why many parents have elected to do this in the past, but my personal experience and opinion is that he has to learn how to deal with this and you have to help him.

Your ex sounds utterly low but yes, I agree that by saying he is not a nice person you are saying to your son that he is part of that (completely unintentionally and for the kindest of motives of course). What you have to do is give him the facts and let him decide for himself what his father is or isn't, in his own time. I'm sorry you are going through all this. Your son is lucky to have at least one decent parent fighting his corner. In some ways your ex's other children have the hard deal if they have a relationship with the twunt.

[follyfoot]

Such a difficult situation, poor you.

That said, I'm what you have said to your child already. That he's 'not nice' but much worse that 'he didn't want a child anymore'. Imagine being told by one parent when you very little that your Dad didnt want you any more. I cant bear to think how he must have felt.

My XH was a proper baddie who went to prison for what he did to us, but I've had to remember that my DD is half 'him' and however hard it has been, been totally neutral about my opinion of him. Saying things like whilst he did a bad thing and maybe made some wrong decisions, that doesnt make him a bad person. And that he will undoubtedly feel sorry for what he did. Despite that, she still worries that she might have some of his personality traits and that she isnt a 'good' person.

Being honest about the current situation, answering the questions he asks and going at his pace is all you can do really.

But please think about not talking about his dad in the same way any more

[NunTheWiser]

Why don't you wait and see if your DS brings it up again before saying anything? At 6, he might just move on and think the man made a mistake.
However, if he does say something, I do think you should give some kind of explaination. Truth is always easier - you don't have to remember what story you came up with!
I tend to agree that telling your DS his dad was a bad man isn't going to be great for your DS. He is biologically half his dad. As the years go by and your DS matures, he will be able to see his dad's behaviour for himself and recognise that the behaviour is bad.
The simpler the better, I think, if your son does ask again. Tell him that you and his dad made your DS. You loved being a mummy but his dad wasn't able to be a good dad and so he left. His dad has met other women and those ladies have had babies too, but he still finds it too hard to be a proper dad. Your DS hasn't met these other children because you don't know these children or their mums. You and DS are a family with lots of other people around that have so much love for him (like his great aunt etc.) You love him and will always be there for him.

[juicychops]

hi everyone and thanks for your advice on what you think is the best way to deal with this. I was at my dad's yesterday so didn't get to reply until now

me and ds had a chat about things yesterday. it was so hard i just didn't know where to start.
i tried to start from the beginning and told ds that his dad wasn't a good bf to me and he wasn't a good daddy to ds and one day he decided to leave which was best for me and ds because we didn't need him we were better off on our own.
i then explained that he had another son with another lady and that was the boy at the park. He put 2 and 2 together and worked out the stranger was his dad. I tried my best to explain in a way he would understand what a half brother was, where they both have the same dads but diferent mums (i have a half sis whos 10 so i was trying to refer back to that) but i dont think i did a great job of explaining it so i said today we'll draw it so that its clearer.

he asked lots of questions about why his dad doesn't want to see him and if his dad loves him and about his half brother. It was so sad it was awful. He seemed ok though. then he told me he didn't want to see his dad and he didn't love his dad. I told him thats ok because hes not expected to love him or even like him because he's a stranger who he doesn't know or who doesn't know anything about him. I said one day when he's older he might want to meet him one day.

i tried to answer all his questions as best i could but some of them just broke my heart. i didn't know how to answer 'does he love me?' so i tried to avoid answering with how much i love him.

feel rubbish today. keep thinking i should have said certain things differently and feel like im messing his little mind up.

Next time i see his fuckwit dad when ds isn't with me he's not going to know whats hit him

[juicychops]

thanks stewiegriffinsmum. i made the decision a long time ago to never portray him in a 'wonderful dad and good person' light because he was never them things. I would hate for ds to build up some kind of idealic image in his mind as he got older about his dad being this lovely person because i know his dad could never ever live up to an expectation like that and ds would be crushed.

he doesn't deserve to even breathe the same air as ds

[Amaretti]

Don't worry about how you said it, I'm sure he won't remember every word. What matters is that you did manage to say it and it's out in the open now. So he can come back to it with you as and when he wants/needs to. You did a hard thing, don't beat yourself up over every tiny detail.

[Riakin]

Hi juicy chops...

I have to say your post has been written with some extreme venom toward your ex...

"Ive told ds he does have a dad but he doesn't see him because his dad isn't a nice person and he decided when he was a baby that he didn't want a child anymore"...

Checklist number 1 for an alientating parent... informing child via way of badmouthing previous parent. I can say that at some point in the future some children (probably not most but a good portion) will come to the conclusion that this person at some point must have been nice enough to make a child with.

"He has no NO fucking right to even say ds's name let alone say life changing things like that to him. How fucking dare he. if i knew where he lived i would go round there and ask him what the hell he wsa playing at"

Checklist number 2 for an alientating parent... trying to erase the ex-parent from the childs life [completely]. What would you do when your DS turns 13/14 and decides he wants a relationship with his Dad? What if your ex (unlikely from what you are saying, but there are two sides to the story) decides to turn over a new leaf? What then?

"i was planning on waiting until he was a little bit older when he was at an age better to understand without making him feel rejected by the prick that is his 'dad'"

You've already done this from the above quotes and your Son is going to be now growing up in an environment where he thinks his Dad is nothing more than a piece of scum... which to you and to the impression you give, yes thats true.

I really don't mean to sound... obnoxious but... something not ringing 100% with your story.

You say your ex doesn't want nothing to do with his son/child... and yet he was at the park with his other son. What was the situation around your breakup i'm going to make the professional opinion that there had been/were some major issues when you broke up... as if he's an "involved" father with his own children from other relationships, what is the reason he isn't with "your" son?

Whats the reasons behind this?

[juicychops]

Riakin there is a lot of bitterness and anger towards my ex and i do hate him for everything he has ever put me through and for being a crap dad to ds for the 1 year he bothered sticking around. Im doing my best not to make ds hate him too based on how i feel, but i will never lie about the way he treated us and will never make him out to be something he wasn't.

ds was the first of his kids. ex treated me pretty crap from the start of the relationship but i was 18 he was my first boyfriend and i had just left a job where i had been abused for a period of time by one of the managers and he was the comfort i needed at the time. He was abusive towards me and raped me 3 times but i still stayed with him because he said 'sorry' and i loved him. Yes i was completely stupid and blind and a completely different person i was all them years ago. when pregnant with ds he had an affair. i forgave him when i had ds and we stayed together until ds was 11 months by which time he had got quite violent towards me and was hardly ever around as he went out drinking most evenings. he did nothing for ds, didn't even come to the hospital when ds had suspected meningitus because he had a cut on his knee from playing football (and im not exaggerating).

then he had another affair and left me for that woman (the mother of ds's half brother). He saw ds a few times after we split up then stopped seeing him for 4 months saying his girlfriend was more important and he needs to focus on her so that when he chooses to see ds again he will be in a better mood for him (this is what he said, i have not exagerated in any way)

anyway, after 4 months he saw him 2 more times in 2 weeks. the second time he asked me to come and pick ds up early because he was runining his day and his time with his friend (i found ds in the pub with his dad. ds was screaming and his dad said he was ruining his time with his mate). a few days later on a Sunday morning he asked me to meet him in the park. he held ds (ds was 16 months) and he said goodbye to him. He said he didn't want to have anything to do with him anymore he didn't want this and as far as he was concerned ds was just another bill (regarding CSA money which i only got for 2 months). he walked off and that was it. that was the last time he ever acknowledged ds

He then went on to have his other child (for some reason unknown the mother stopped him seeing that child for a while, but he now sees him regularly i think)

so i think i do have grounds for feeling the way i do towards him. and i have tried my best to not pass my views onto ds about him but i will never tell ds he was a nice man or a good dad because he never was.

I have kept photos and videos of ds and his dad for when he's older and asks to see them and if he ever wants to see him in the future i will never stop him. Im not being an alienating parent at all. ds's dad alienated himself by choosing not to have a part in ds's life. i even sent solicitors letters after he chose not to see ds asking him to make contact to see ds. he ignored every one and i have them for ds to see when he's older to show him i did my best

[juicychops]

i have no idea in the world why he chose to never see ds again but was quite willing to have a relationship with his next child. No idea at all and something i will never understand. and im sure ds will never understand it as he grows up either and i know that is something that is bound to really hurt him when he's older - and its something i can't protect him from which makes me so sad for him

[Riakin]

Hi Juicychops,

Well, saying you are doing your best job not to make him hate your ex... saying words like he's not nice is not the best way to go about this at all and so far you've admitted a contradiction to the "i do not pass my views onto ds about him", because you've clearly admitted you have.

I'm not saying you are being an alienating parent but you are starting to go down (what is for me and my dealings) a familiar route taken (mainly by women) and the truth lies in 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'.

Well when he is older he may want to make contact with him and likewise his father may accept him when he is older.

On the core aspect of your post to me: its quite obvious he has done some things that he has warranted your anger but only in hindsight of this. At the time of these things you were taken in by the situation blinded by your love.

What i am basically advising is that yes he may warrant your own personal feelings of anger, but this is something your child needs to be kept apart from as one day (if he makes contact with DS) it could begin to form emotional abuse.

You seem to be or have been in a very tricky position in your past and i have to say and i'm sure others will say too that he's done some terrible things that [maybe rightly] you cannot forgive or forget.

Just keep your son out of it for as long as you can or he (your DS) allows...

[TheProvincialLady]

Riakin I think you need to keep your personal feelings and experiences out of this situation. You have shown no empathy for what Juicy has just related to you about being raped and abused, and your tone is quite aggressive.

Juicy I think you have handled this as well as you could in the circumstances. At least everything is out in the open now. If you want some professional advice about how to help your son through this, you could ask for help via the school.

[juicychops]

riakin, the "i do not pass my views onto ds about him", - this is not what i quoted. i said i have TRIED MY BEST TO NOT pass my views onto ds about him.

thanks provincial lady. do the schools help with things like that? the head teacher at ds's school isn't very approachable and they dont have a school counceller type person